Translation training — Pro Sex. Roscio 19

By Pacifica, in 'Latin to English Translation', Jul 4, 2016.

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  1. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Comments and opinions welcome.

    Ne diutius teneam, iudices, societas coitur. Cum nulla iam proscriptionis mentio fieret, cum etiam, qui antea metuerant, redirent ac iam defunctos sese periculis arbitrarentur, nomen refertur in tabulas Sex. Rosci, hominis studiosissimi nobilitatis; manceps fit Chrysogonus; tria praedia vel nobilissima Capitoni propria traduntur, quae hodie possidet; in reliquas omnis fortunas iste T. Roscius nomine Chrysogoni, quem ad modum ipse dicit, impetum facit. Haec omnia, iudices, imprudente L. Sulla facta esse certo scio.

    Not to keep you too long, gentlemen, a partnership was formed between them. At a time when no mention of proscription was made anymore and even those who had feared proscription before were coming back and thought themselves now out of danger, the name of Sex. Roscius senior, a man who had been altogether devoted to the nobility, was entered in the tablets. Chrysogonus became the purchaser. The three noblest estates were handed over to Capito as his own. They are those which he still possesses today. All the rest of the properties were invaded by T. Roscius in Chrysogonus's name, as T. Roscius himself says. I know for certain that all this, gentlemen, was done without L. Sulla's knowing.
  2. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Lol, by the way, iudices being idiomatically translated as "gentlemen" in this context inspired me for an experiment. I thought that, since Google Translate often fetches bits of translations of Latin texts, it would perhaps give iudices as a translation for "gentlemen". So I tried. And indeed it does. And if someone, for some reason, wanted to say "they are gentlemen" in Latin, and trusted GT for the translation, they would end up saying "they are judges".
    Callaina likes this.
  3. Callaina Feles Curiosissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Canada
    "Invaded" really isn't at all the word you want here -- it sounds as though he charged onto the properties waving a sword. Maybe "seized"? (Though I don't really know the context so I'm unsure.)
    malleolus likes this.
  4. Callaina Feles Curiosissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Canada
    Or maybe just "taken over by..."
  5. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    I thought it could work in a somewhat figurative way like in the Latin (which means literally "make an attack", "charge", but I didn't think that could work). Ah, well.

    Yes, "seized" or "taken over" is the idea.
  6. Callaina Feles Curiosissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Canada
    It might be best to join these sentences together. Also, "They are those which he still possesses today" makes it sound as though they are his only estates.

    Maybe just: "The three noblest estates were handed over to Capito as his own -- estates which he still possesses today."
  7. LVXORD Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Australia
    Perhaps 'made his move on the all remaining estates...' - it seems somewhat militaristic without being over the top.
  8. Hawkwood .

    • Civis
    ● Is this a phrase denoting proscription?
  9. malleolus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Yes, it is. Cicero maintains that Roscius Maior's name was deliberately added afterwards and was not part of the original proscription lists.
  10. malleolus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Yes, it is. Cicero maintains that Roscius Maior's name was deliberately added afterwards and was not part of the original proscription lists.

    I am sure you know this clip already.
    Last edited by malleolus, Aug 30, 2016
    Hawkwood and Callaina like this.
  11. Hawkwood .

    • Civis
    Thanks! I normally steer clear of Roman documentaries as as they consist of boring battles and the basics repeated over and over but that above looks fantastic.

    Actually I'll ask you something if I may. The only solid information I read about this trial (prior to last night) was a translation by an author who went into detail about it, the book stated that if Cicero lost this case he risked being branded with an H on his forehead for 'Hypocrite'. Does this ring a bell to you? I can't find anything on this now, admittedly It was a fair few years ago.
  12. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    I don't know, but it's reminiscent of what's said here concerning the letter K.
  13. Hawkwood .

    • Civis
    Ah yes, I'm miles off. You know that also rings a bell as I'm sure myself and Imber spoke about this somewhere on here. I'd love to find out who the author was again that I was reading pertaining to this trial. I was certain it was Tom Holland but it couldn't have been.
  14. malleolus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    Actually, I seem to remember that Tom Holland did mention something like that (my memory is rather vague) in his book Rubicon: The Triumph and Tragedy of the Roman Republic. Unfortunately a friend of mine has borrowed that book so I can't be sure.
    The defense involved some risk for Cicero, since he accused Lucius Cornelius Chrysogonus, who was a freedman of Sulla. Any malicious prosecutor risked being convicted under the Remmian Law as well as being tattoed with the letter K on his forehead.He would be forbidden to undertake further posecutions and the tattoo would have ensured any application to prosecute he would make would be rejected.
  15. Etaoin Shrdlu Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    You know, there's something in this.
  16. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    ?
  17. Callaina Feles Curiosissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Canada
    I think she means it's a good idea, maybe for our own times too. ;)
  18. Hawkwood .

    • Civis

    After a brief scan last night, all I could find in Holland's book pertaining to the trial is the middle paragraph of this page; although knowing Holland, it might be spread out throughout the book. 2016-08-30 19.25.53.jpg

    Edit: Ignore my fingernails, I've been working in the garden.
    Last edited by Hawkwood, Aug 30, 2016
  19. Hawkwood .

    • Civis
    Anyway, I'm going to watch that documentary tonight and have a mooch online so hopefully I'll be up to scratch a bit more as I've not really read too much on Cicero at all.
  20. malleolus Civis Illustris

    • Civis Illustris
    You should watch it - it's quite good and gives you some background information on Cicero as well.
    Hawkwood likes this.

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