Truth under the morning star

By jvirgo, in 'English to Latin Translation', Dec 10, 2018.

  1. jvirgo New Member

    Hey guys! could use some help from some experts and decided to make an account

    I don't trust google, I put something in that I wanted translated and had it translated back to English coming back...suspicious

    I plan on getting it tattoo'd on myself so I was hoping for anyone who could accurately get the phrase translated over?

    "Truth under the morning star"

    now a couple things
    a few of the words are contextual and ive been lurking the site to try to find the best way to get the essence of this phrase across since im developing a family creed and crest from it

    truth - the quality of honesty, not necessarily "the truth" (so whatever variation of verum/veritas that would be)
    under- by way of, not specifically positioning, but how you are "under the impression" if that makes sense. if its still used prepositionally i'm ok with that
    the morning star- I really REALLY don't want "lucifer" as the translation lol. I saw a couple other translations but they were from google so im not sure how well they fit, but I decided to go the route of "the star of the morning" to get away from lucifer, but I am referring to venus, which is referred to as "the morning star"

    I found
    stella matutina
    stellam matutinum
    sidus in mane

    thanks a lot guys
  2. Callaina Feles Curiosissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Canada
    I'm a little bit confused as to truth can be "under the morning star" in the same way that one can be "under the impression". Can you elaborate?

    Also, if an admin can change the thread title to "Truth under the morning star", that would be great.
  3. jvirgo New Member


    "By way of" or "through". The same way that you're "under arrest" doesn't mean you are positionally "beneath" arrest. I don't want an "underneath" translation, more like "truth through the morning star" if that makes better sense.
  4. Callaina Feles Curiosissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Canada
    That works better, and even has a famous precedent: Per aspera ad astra ("To the stars by means of/through obstacles").

    Adapting this, we get: Per stellam matutinam ad veritatem. ("To the truth by means of the morning star".)
  5. LCF a.k.a. Lucifer

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Apud Inferos
    What's wrong with Lucifer?

    Matthaeus likes this.
  6. Callaina Feles Curiosissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Canada
    Probably because this is a quote about truth, and he's known as the "Father of Lies". :p
  7. LCF a.k.a. Lucifer

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Apud Inferos

    Not true. ;)
    Callaina likes this.
  8. Matthaeus Vemortuicida strenuus

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Varsovia
    Yeah, he's the bearer of light, not falsehood. I think Lucifer was originally neutral, only later, maybe by Christianity, was he associated with Satan and put into a bad light, no pun intended. :D
    Callaina likes this.
  9. jvirgo New Member

    I never got a definitive on this one. I’ve made designs for the Crest and now I want to work on the imaging of my credo. So far the best answer seems to be along the lines of “veritas ad astra Stella matutina” ?
  10. Dantius Homo Sapiens

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    in orbe lacteo
    Nope.

    This works, or just veritas per stellam matutinam (truth through the morning star).
    jvirgo likes this.
  11. Shannon Boyes New Member

    This is beautiful, best of luck finding your translation.
  12. jvirgo New Member

    I’m sorry to Rez an old post like this, but I finally came up with a sigil design that I want surrounding this.

    Before the conversation digressed a bit, the only translation I got was

    Per stellam matutinam ad veritatem

    Is this the most correct for what I’m aiming for ?

    The second translation posted
    “Veritas per stellam matutinum” I like a lot. Can anyone chime in?

    This will be a credo on a family crest that I’ll be the first generation of, so I’d like to make sure it’s just right. Thanks all.
  13. Hemo Rusticus J. Wellington Wimpy

    • Civis Illustris
    Frankly, I far prefer your 'under' to this arrived-at 'through'. We severely underestimate the Latin language in assuming that the word sub has only the value of 'underneath'. Is there not the ready phrase sub Iulio 'under (the governance of) Julius', more relevant given the long-standing (medieval) conception that celestial phenomena 'govern' what goes on down on the earth?

    Now, both:
    Per stellam matutinam ad veritatem
    and
    Veritas per stellam matutinam

    are correct, but my suggestion is:

    Veritas sub stella matutina

    Have faith, my friend.

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