Tuomoniae in Hibernia, familiam à pietate, doctrina, & hospitalitate à multis saeculis notam...

By Bruodinus, in 'Latin to English Translation', Oct 26, 2014.

  1. Bruodinus Member

    Yes indeed - it might merely be an expression that is almost hyperbolic and it is being used only figuratively.
    Thanks guys, much appreciated.:)
  2. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    You forgot cum tanto fervoris spiritu. Or do you meant perhaps to translate it just as "eagerly"? Because I see no equivalent to that word in the Latin. In any case tanto... ut should be rendered by "so... that", however you find best to translate fervoris spiritu. Perhaps I'd translate it literally, personally. "he set about... with such a spirit of fervor.................. that through his diligence...."
    You forgot modeste.
    Perhaps I would translate avitae religionis as "of the religion of their ancestors".
    When Dermitius had labored (laborasset, plpf).
    Oh, I've learnt a new word today.
    It's the ut clause that cordi erat, not "he". "Dear as their own hearts" is probably a little exaggerated as a translation of cordi erat. You also forgot pro eorum consolatione.

    I'd say something along the lines of: .... for whom it was important that he should, for their consolation, keep himself with the greatest possible care.
    There's nothing saying this.

    ut thaumaturgum nostrum.... suis in retibus (not rebus) intercipere possent: in order to intercept/catch our miracle-worker in their nets.
  3. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    In fact I think you can just say "the ones above" for it not to be too dissonant with the Christian context. After all that's what superi literally means, "the ones above", there's no word literally meaning "gods", even if in classical times it meant the gods.

    Here's the next paragraph:

    In those very days when they were searching for him, Dermitius was catechising and preaching the Word of God not far from Limerick, in places besides mountainous and usually free from the invasions of heretics. This did not go unnoticed by the heretical prefect of the citadel of Limerick; therefore, a few carabineers having been quickly dispatched, Dermitius was caught in the act as he was delivering the end of a speech from a platform, badly beaten with fists, clubs, and a thousand scoffs by the furious soldiers, and finally dragged to Limerick with his hands tied behind his back in the year of grace 1603. When the prefect of the citadel was informed that the prey had been caught, he ordered Dermitius, provided with iron handcuffs and fetters, to be tortured in the stinking jails of evildoers. Bruodin (who was already weakened by his voluntary fasts and daily mortifications) was brought by lictors/officers/policemen (?*) to the jails, in which he had to suffer, during four successive months, the greatest torments and afflictions; for no Catholic was allowed to speak with him or to supply him publicly with any assistance on pain of a heavy fine.

    *Don't know the right term to use in this context.
    Last edited by Pacis puella, Nov 25, 2014
    Bruodinus and Infacundus like this.
  4. Imperfacundus Reprobatissimus

    • Civis Illustris
    Gratias tibi )

    Paragraph two, updated:
    Moments after he set foot on his native soil, Bruodinus, after deservedly thanking the heavens, set about sowing the seeds of Catholic truth among his kinsmen and acquaintances (among whom, as is still the case, there were as many Bruodini as there are professors of the Catholic faith in the whole of Thomond) who were starved of pastors, by discreetly banishing the rantings of heretics from the pulpits, by explaining the basic principles of their ancestors' religion, by tirelessly carrying out the sacraments necessary for salvation, and all of this he carried out with such fervor that through his diligence Catholics throughout all of Thomond’s baronies, or circles, received a great bounty of spiritual nourishment. When Dermitius had labored in this fashion, by word and by example, for many years in the Lord’s vineyard, and left the scent of fame sprinkled in his wake wherever he went, the enemy of mankind’s salvation endeavored (through Elizabeth's heretical agents) to thwart Dermitius’ undertakings and progress. Various stalkers, rather vile types, kept watch in a number of places in Thomond, waiting to catch in their nets our miracle-worker (who, as one who burned with a very keen desire for martyrdom, would have put himself in plain sight of the enemy long ago, had he not been stopped by his superiors’ orders and given pause by the beseeching of the Catholics, for whom it was very important, as consolation, that he take great pains to keep himself safe).
  5. Bruodinus Member

    a big thank you to all for your input and for Infacundas for his update:)

    And a big thank you to Pacis for producing the next paragraph. Many thanks indeed, it’s really good and coming together nicely.
  6. Bruodinus Member

    any takers for the next para, beginning: Tandem è custodia extractus...? :)

    I wonder what next is in stall for poor Dermitius;)

  7. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Finally taken out of custody, called forth for examination in front of the royal judges sitting before the tribunal, and interrogated about divers irrelevant things, Dermitius courageously responded that there was no need for further examination: his robe showed that he was a Catholic and a religious of the Franciscan Order; concerning the name, fatherland, rank, works, and friends of the man, everything was already fully known to them, who had caught him in the act as he was delivering a speech in public; so there remained nothing else to be done but for him to be discharged, or for his constancy in the profession of the Catholic doctrine to be tested with the most exquisite tortures. "All right", said the judge, "what you ask for shall be done." He was therefore stripped, at the judge's behest, of his seraphic robe, and atrociously beaten by two torturers with whips and rods. Finally, he was lifted up into the air with his hands drawn backwards; and as he was proven in this torture to be a steadfast champion of Christ, asked by some impudent praedicautius (?*) whether he felt any pains, he responded, "I do, but very slight ones compared to those which my Saviour Jesus endured for me, he for whose cause I am here fighting." After he said this, the torture was released and he was brought back to the jails.

    *This must be some title/function but I can't find a definition.
    Last edited by Pacis puella, Dec 2, 2014
  8. Bruodinus Member

    Hello Pacis - many thanks indeed of this. It's developing into an interesting story.
    I have done a search for praedicautius but I cannot come up with anything definite, unless it is a derivative word meaning 'proclamation' or something like that?
    Anyway, many thanks once again!
  9. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    It cannot mean "proclamation"; it designates a person, and it's doubtless the name of some function or title.
  10. Imperfacundus Reprobatissimus

    • Civis Illustris
    Probably just "preacher"
  11. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Maybe some particular kind of preacher then? Because for "preacher" there's the most usual word praedicator.
  12. Imperfacundus Reprobatissimus

    • Civis Illustris
    Hm... dunno
    This source explains it as a minister monasterii. Praedicantius, with an n, is explained as a pastor and as someone who has "administrated the churches". These all seem pretty similar, maybe they're misspellings of one title.
  13. Imber Ranae Ranunculus Iracundus

    • Civis Illustris
    On the face of it praedicantius seems the more likely to be correct spelling. The letters n and u are easily confused in much of the handwriting of the medieval and early modern era.
  14. Bruodinus Member

    :) ok that is interesting - many thanks and that does fit into the context.

    I'm glad to see that the story of Dermitius is coming together :) Many thanks to all so far for their help.
  15. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Here's a first part of the last paragraph:

    More or less at the time when Dermitius was being tortured, Donatus O'Brien, headman of his family and most powerful earl of Thomond, a man of great authority in those times throughout England and Ireland, landed at Limerick. This man, moved by the usual affection of the O'Briens for their Bruodins, thought about a way to free Father Dermitius from other tortures and from death whith which he was soon to be punished. And so the earl persuaded the judges sitting in court that Dermitius was a fool that he himself not rarely used for his own relaxation; and to prove this he brought in as an argument that, if he were not simple, he would not go like that in public with head and beard shaven* and dressed in that long robe, contrary to the common practice of all other papist priests throughout England and Ireland. Pacified by this persuasion, or (as I am myself persuaded) because they did not dare resist the desires of a very powerful earl (whose loyalty for the king and merits towards the Crown were proclaimed by all England), the judges remitted Dermitius, almost already weakened to death by tortures and afflictions, to liberty. Now declared free, Christ's fool Dermitius came back to his fatherland and prudently took back up his former works in Thomond.

    *I'm not sure if it's "beard shaven" or "long beard", actually; not sure what barba goes with here, rasus or indutus: non incederet ita publice rasus in capite, & barba, & longa illa veste indutus... After hesitating some time I thought rasus was more likely, but as I don't actually know the customs of that time, I'm not sure. What do others think?
    Last edited by Pacis puella, Dec 5, 2014
  16. Bruodinus Member

    Oh Pacis, that's really great - my thanks to you for this next instalment.:) It's great.
  17. Bruodinus Member

    this is my translation of the last section, taking off from where Pacis left us. Any views would be appreciated:

    ...The emancipated fool for Christ Dermot returned to his homeland and prudently resumed his former labours throughout Thomond. Everywhere (under the guise of a stupid monk and protected by Count O’Brien, a heretic in words, but at heart a catholic man) in the midst of persecutors and the English, went about Ennis and elsewhere throughout the province, always publicly in the Franciscan habit, and by word and example gained many souls for Christ (for the glory of whose Name he not infrequently suffered being counted a fool, blows, laughter and taunts, in the way of fools, counting it an honour to himself) and seized them from the devil. By now Bruodin was affected by great old age, exhausting labours and great sickness, fortified by all the necessary sacraments died piously in the Lord on 9th August 1617 in his Franciscan Convent in the town of Ennis (in which he was alone with a servant, his Brothers already having being expelled from there by the heretics, for the last three years of his life, normally and continually recommending the afflicted state of the Church and his homeland to God in fervent prayer).

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