Tattoo When they open their eyes, the fight will be short

By Gregory Shaw, in 'English to Latin Translation', May 18, 2018.

  1. Gregory Shaw New Member

    Hi,
    I would really appriciate if someone could please help me with this!

    I'm thinking of having this as a comment on the possible outcome from finally creating a real artificial intelligence. I'm not sure if "they" an "theirs" should be "it" and "its", does that work in latin?

    I hope you are having a great day!
    // Greg
  2. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    Hi,

    I guess either can work, depending on whether you want to refer to multiple intelligent machines (the first ones) or just one (the first one).

    Plural version: cum oculos aperuerint, brevis erit pugna.
    Singular version: cum oculos aperuerit, brevis erit pugna.

    Edit: Oh, yeah, there's that English cum problem thing which I keep forgetting about. Cum is a very common Latin word and, viewing it as such, I tend to use it instinctively without thinking of its unfortunate identity of spelling with an offensive English word and of the issues it could cause if found in a tattoo. Cum can be replaced with quom or quum.
    Last edited by Pacifica, May 18, 2018
    Gregory Shaw likes this.
  3. Gregory Shaw New Member


    Hi,

    first of all, thanks a lot for your answer, I really do appriciate it!
    I think the singular version is what I'm looking for, e.g. "The first one" rather than "the first ones", when you put it that way it was easier to choose.

    I'm not too worried about the word "cum", but now that you have mentioned it I kind of started to think about it :)
    But I do still prioritize to have the text as linguistically correct as possible. Would you say that "quom" have exactly the same meaning as "cum" or is there some subtle difference? Also would "cum" be more linguistically correct than "quom"?
  4. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    They are variant spellings of the same word and have exactly the same meaning. Quom is a somewhat older form whereas cum is more usual in so-called classical Latin, i.e. the Latin of Cicero and Caesar, basically; but even Cicero sometimes used quom so it hadn't died out.
  5. Gregory Shaw New Member

    Great, then I know :)
    You've really been very helpful, Thanks again!
  6. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    NP.
  7. Abbatiſſæ Scriptor Senex

    • Civis Illustris
    Such is indeed the caſe for the adverb, but the conjunction 'cum' has a different origin (being equivalent to the verbal prefix 'com-' or 'con-') and I would not feel comfortable replacing that 'cum' with 'quom'.
    As to any fear of confusion with English ſlang, one need only note that the Latin conjunction is often adopted into colloquial English to mean 'also ſerving as'.
    Last edited by Abbatiſſæ Scriptor, May 23, 2018
  8. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    I think you're confusing things. Quom is the older spelling of the conjunction cum. The preposition (and former adverb) cum has a different origin. Here, I'm using the conjunction (for "when") not the preposition (meaning "with").
  9. Abbatiſſæ Scriptor Senex

    • Civis Illustris
    Sorry, I meant prepoſition.:D
    I am not ſure if either of the two Latin words written as 'cum' can ever properly be regarded as a 'conjunction' (although the English borrowing noted above might be ſeen as ſuch).
    One is an adverb of time, the other a prepoſition marking the ſocio-inſtrumental caſe.
  10. Pacifica grammaticissima

    • Civis Illustris
    Location:
    Belgium
    L&S classifies the one meaning "when/since/etc." as a conjunction while the OLD classifies it as a relative adverb. I've regarded it as being both, actually; but you're right, "relative adverb" may be the more exact term when it comes to the intrinsic nature of the word.
    English borrowing? Do you mean "when"? To my mind, it's the same as cum as far as classification is concerned. It can probably be seen both as a conjunction and as a relative adverb.

    But, anyway, whatever the classifications, the cum used in this translation is the one that can be turned into quom, its older variant (see: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0059:entry=Cum2).

    The other cum (the one meaning "with") is sometimes found as quom or quum in MSs too, according to L&S, but that could be a later mistake by false analogy with the relative adverb/conjunction. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0059:entry=cum1

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