Love in Summer 12th Century poem by Anon.

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
My Spanish is rusty, but I'm pretty sure "del éter" is just a literal translation of aetheris.

"Del éter el tempero" = poetic word order for "el tempero del éter" = aetheris temperies.

The Spanish translator seems to have been interpreting eblanditur the same way as I did:
I'm not sure about eblanditur, but maybe it's used in a non-classical way with a meaning like "becomes milder".
 

NubusLatinae1770

Member

Location:
New York USA
Hello all,

Isn't "temperies" the nominative singular meaning "the temperature" and other meanings close to "temperantia, ae"?

Also wouldn't the usage in Spanish, as you understand it Lepus, have to be aetere not the genetive aeteris?
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
Isn't "temperies" the nominative singular meaning "the temperature"
It is.
and other means close to "temperantia, ae"?
I'm not sure what you mean by "other means", but both words are etymologically related.
Also wouldn't the usage in Spanish, as you understand it Iepus, have to be aetere not the genetive aeteris?
Yes, it would be aethere. The Spanish translation seems pretty literal in all the lines, so I think it's unlikely that the translator would have departed from the original just there (not to mention the fact that even disregarding the Latin, the natural interpretation of the Spanish seems to be "of the ether" rather than "by", "thanks to", or so).
 

NubusLatinae1770

Member

Location:
New York USA
Just to clarify, eblanditur is normally a deponent verb, yet here it seems that either it is acting in a passive meaning or the direct object being "softened, made mild" is unspoken but implied to be the earth/herbage, because the first line is in the ablative absolute, that cannot be the direct object, right?

So literally it must mean:

"The herbage still being delicate,
The temperature of the ether/upper sky is making mild/softening [the earth]
The face of earth laughs
In color multifold"
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
That interpretation seems unlikely to me. It's more likely to mean "is becoming mild", "softening (itself)".
 

NubusLatinae1770

Member

Location:
New York USA
So the meaning would be made passive here, the object "temperies" being made mild?
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
Either middle-sense passive or intransitive, depending on how you look at it.
 

lepus

Member

Thanks, Pacifica & NubusLatinae177 for your comments. To make myself clear...
Isn't "temperies" the nominative singular meaning "the temperature" and other meanings close to "temperantia, ae"?
Yes, but the translator used the word el tempero, which means, according to RAE online dictionary, "sazón y buena disposición en que se halla la tierra para las sementeras y labores", and nothing else. The same or similar definition can be found in two or three other dictionaries I checked. Which somehow disproves what Pacifica said - that "the Spanish translation seems pretty literal in all the lines". Not in this line. Or those dictionaries ignore a certain legitimate use of tempero: as a synonim for temperatura, which is, of course, possible, but for now unconfirmed.
Also wouldn't the usage in Spanish, as you understand it Lepus, have to be aetere not the genetive aeteris?
No, because we no longer speak about the Latin original, but about the consequences of the choice made by the Spanish translator. If (let me stress it: if) we understand tempero as "soil conditions", and not "temperature", interpreting de eter as "of the aether" makes no sense. So I assumed that de is syntactically attached to se suaviza and means "from", like in the expression "to get warm from fire". The construction suavizarse de algo certainly exists, although the relation of the predicate and object is ambiguous, as the verb itself has a range of meanings rather than one meaning: "to soften", "to become milder", "to alleviate" (e.g., suavizarse del miedo), etc.

I think I reached the point where I should ask a native Spanish speaker how he/she understands the Spanish version. Anyone to help?

Meanwhile, thanks for your patience, and all the knowledge you share on this forum.
 

NubusLatinae1770

Member

Location:
New York USA
Hello Lepus,

Thank you for clarifying. I don't know Spanish unfortunately, so I will too wait for someone who is fluent to either confirm or deny. In any case, the Spanish interpretation is certainly interesting, though I have checked Cassell's and an ecclesiastical dictionary of Latin, and both give the definition of "temperies" as temperature and also give the same understandings of "temperance, moderation, equal proportions" as in it's relative "temperantia", so I wonder what drove the Spaniard translator to such an understanding.

I appreciate your comments!
 

lepus

Member

Hello again (and for the last time to delve into this).

I've checked two Spanish corpora on the website of RAE: one of the contemporary language (CREA), and the other one diachronic (CORDE). In today's Spanish the word tempero - only 12 cases of usage - has indeed only the meaning related to soil conditions, with one recorded exception, however, when it refers to political climate. The examples in CORDE (116 cases) reveal a word that means "a due mingling, proper mixture" (that's how Latin temperies is defined in L&S), applicable mainly to soil conditions again, but, bingo!, in a document dated 1539 we read that in Ethiopia "tiene el çielo y la tierra el mesmo tempero" all year round. So, if tempero goes well with cielo as its property or quality, I gladly accept your reading. Resolved.
 
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