Ovid, Metamorphoses, 11.47

[Carl Nilson]

In this line, can "tonsa" be translated as "shearing" as opposed to the passive "having been sheared?" If so, is "comas" the direct object?

Also, is "positis ... frondibus" an ablative absolute? Thank you.

 

[Pacifica]

In this line, can "tonsa" be translated as "shearing" as opposed to the passive "having been sheared?" If so, I "comas" is the direct object.

No. Tonsa is passive and comas is an accusative of respect (if you don't know what this is or can't find it out by yourself, come back and ask us).

Also, is "positis ... frondibus" an ablative absolute?

Yes.

 

[Carl Nilson]

No. Tonsa is passive and comas is an accusative of respect (if you don't know what this is or can't find it out by yourself, come back and ask us).

Yes.

WOW, this site really works! Thank you very much! I didn't think it could take an object, because it wouldn't make any sense that way. I should have considered the accusative of respect. I now see the error of my ways. Thanks again for straightening me out. (I have a tendency to jump into things that are slightly over my head.) Carl

 

[Godmy]

No. Tonsa is passive and comas is an accusative of respect (if you don't know what this is or can't find it out by yourself, come back and ask us).
Yes.

Do you remember many years ago as we were discovering this little piece of grammar? It was the Lucretius's infamous "volucres... perculsae corda tuā vī"

You used the Bitmap card, I remember xD

 

[Pacifica]

WOW, this site really works!

Lol, that's a funny thing to say. As if the site were a machine. Yes, the brain-mechanics of the Latinists on the site work.

Do you remember many years ago as we were discovering this little piece of grammar? It was the Lucretius's infamous "volucres... perculsae corda tuā vī"

You used the Bitmap card, I remember xD

I remember that conversation a bit, but I don't remember what the Bitmap card means... Do you mean I tagged Bitmap or something?

 

[Carl Nilson]

Do you remember many years ago as we were discovering this little piece of grammar? It was the Lucretius's infamous "volucres... perculsae corda tuā vī"



You used the Bitmap card, I remember xD

Well, I can't say that I remember that phrase exactly. I do remember, however, having trouble many years ago with the phrase "nunc viridi membra sub arbuto / stratus," from the first ode of Horace. I remember being told then about the Greek accusative, which I believe is the same thing. Obviously I don't have a mind like a steel trap.

 

[Godmy]

Well, I can't say that I remember that phrase exactly. I do remember, however, having trouble many years ago with the phrase "nunc viridi membra sub arbuto / stratus," from the first ode of Horace. I remember being told then about the Greek accusative, which I believe is the same thing. Obviously I don't have a mind like a steel trap.

Ah, I'm sorry, it was meant for Pacifica specifically But your example is analogic.^

 

[Carl Nilson]

I stand corrected! What I meant to say is that I'm very happy to know that there are some very knowledgeable Latinists on this site who are ready and willing to deal with my amateurish questions. Thanks again! You made my day.

 

[Pacifica]

I stand corrected! What I meant to say is that I'm very happy to know that there are some very knowledgeable Latinists on this site who are ready and willing to deal with my amateurish questions. Thanks again! You made my day.

No problem. I just found the way you put it... cute. And funny, as I said. It made me smile for some reason.

 

[Godmy]

I remember that conversation a bit, but I don't remember what the Bitmap card means... Do you mean I tagged Bitmap or something?

Ah, I meant really just quotting Bitmap where he talked about Greek accusatives specifically in Ovid and you suggested that that might be solution to the problem (but I mean, I have no specific feelings about it, it just seemed as a funny remark to me now), I guess we could find the thread easily by searching for the Lucretian line : )

Ah, here, but the conversation is a little bit ridiculous today, 6 years to the future...

 

[Pacifica]

Ah, here, but the conversation is a little bit ridiculous today, 6 years to the future...

Oh my God, hahaha! Well, everyone is a beginner at some point, right?

 

[Godmy]

Right

my God

You've got to swap these two words, don't you know...

 

[Carl Nilson]

No problem. I just found the way you put it... cute. And funny, as I said. It made me smile for some reason.

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Hello, it's me again. At the risk of making a pest of myself, I'd like to ask you whether the past participle of a deponent verb can take an object, as in "carmina saepe secutae" (Metamorphoses 11.45). I've been assuming that it can, as I've learned that deponent verb forms have active meanings. I'd appreciate any comment you might care to make. Thanks, Carl ​

 

[Godmy]

Basically, any active participle (active by meaning, the form is irrelevant) of any transitive verb has the same syntactic valency powers as if the verb was in a finite mood (or another non-finite mood: the infinitive). So yes, just like "vidēns" could, so "secūtus" can. This is also the only case where in Latin the past active participle exists.

 

[Pacifica]

Yes, the past participle of a deponent verb can take a direct object provided, of course, that the verb is transitive (as it is here).

 

[Godmy]

I ninja'ed monkey'ed you.... on purpose! (surely)

Probably, subconsciously, I wished to make you swear more today! : D

 

[Carl Nilson]

Basically, any active participle (active by meaning, the form is irrelevant) of any transitive verb has the same syntactic valency powers as if the verb was in a finite mood (or another non-finite mood: the infinitive). So yes, just like "vidēns" could, so "secūtus" can. This is also the only case where in Latin the past active participle exists.

That's great, thanks a lot! I don't know a single soul who's interested in this stuff, so thanks for breathing some air into my vacuum chamber. I really appreciate your thoughtful response. Carl

 

[Godmy]

No problem, me and my colleague responded to this thread simultaneously by accident. It's a coincidence I'm active here today at all, I tend to have long streaks of absence, she, on the other hand, is way more reliable in being present (I'm saying that just for the future ) and, of course, many other members of the forum.

 

[Carl Nilson]

Yes, the past participle of a deponent verb can take a direct object provided, of course, that the verb is transitive (as it is here).

That's great, thanks a lot! (As I was just saying to Godmy) I don't know a single soul who's interested in this stuff, so thanks for breathing some air into my vacuum chamber. I really appreciate your thoughtful response. Carl ​