Aeneid - Book XI

AoM

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Now that's some litotes.

at non haec nullis hominum sator atque deorum
observans oculis summo sedet altus Olympo. (725-6)
 

AoM

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Having finished translating the book, the only things I remembered in detail (since I first read it 6 years ago) was the very beginning with the Mezentius-trophy and the very end with Turnus giving up his ambush. Funny how the memory works.

And the latter I only remembered because of this construction that my professor kept stressing:

continuoque ineant pugnas et proelia temptent,
ni roseus fessos iam gurgite Phoebus Hibero
tingat equos noctemque die labente reducat. (912-4)
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
Because the irrealis is expressed with a present subjunctive?
 

AoM

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Yup. Williams also cited:

incumbens umero, spatia et si plura supersint
transeat elapsus prior ambiguumque relinquat. (5.325-6)

et ni docta comes tenuis sine corpore vitas
admoneat volitare cava sub imagine formae,
inruat et frustra ferro diverberet umbras. (6.292-4)
 

AoM

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Horsfall keeping that crown of having the best commentary.

“Had Aen. in some way shared in the vigil (Con.)? Or was he anxious not to be defiled by the presence of a corpse, before he had fulfilled his vow (Ladewig)? Mercifully, the poet is less troubled by such trivia than some of his editors.”
 

Dantius

Homo Sapiens
Staff member
I love Horsfall's comments like that. :D
 

AoM

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Horsfall says the expression nil moror is an idiom (and colloquialism) belonging to spoken Latin. It's also in book 5 (nec dona moror), right before Entellus enters the ring against Dares.

"...and I don't give a damn about gifts" definitely gives that moment some oomph.
 

AoM

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His use of exclamation points can sometimes be a little creepy lol.

"Cf. Ter.Eun.314 demissis umeris (of languid young women!)"
 

AoM

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So apparently, ingemuit is the perfect form of both ingemere and ingemiscere.

Virgil never uses the present of the inceptive, but does use the present of the former one time:

Extemplo Aeneae solvuntur frigore membra:
ingemit, et duplicis tendens ad sidera palmas
talia voce refert (1.92-3)

He uses the perfect form six times:

num fletu ingemuit nostro? num lumina flexit? (4.369, Dido talking to herself with Aeneas present)

ter sese attollens cubitoque adnixa levavit,
ter revoluta toro est oculisque errantibus alto
quaesivit caelo lucem ingemuitque reperta. (4.690-2, Dido dying)

Dardanidae, quos ille omnis longo ordine cernens
ingemuit (6.482-3, Aeneas seeing Trojans in the underworld)

ingemuit cari graviter genitoris amore,
ut vidit, Lausus, lacrimaeque per ora volutae (10.789-90, Lausus witnessing Aeneas attack his father, Mezentius)

At vero ut vultum vidit morientis et ora,
ora modis Anchisiades pallentia miris,
ingemuit miserans graviter dextramque tetendit,
et mentem patriae subiit pietatis imago. (10.821-4, Aeneas after fatally wounding Lausus)

utque procul medio iuvenum in clamore furentum
prospexit tristi mulcatam morte Camillam,
ingemuitque deditque has imo pectore voces: (11.838-40, Opis mourning Camilla's death, and about to take vengeance on Arruns)

So I was wondering if there was any point in trying to distinguish the two. Or is there really any difference to distinguish, in English at least? Maybe just 'combining' the two for "began to groan out/over".
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
So apparently, ingemuit is the perfect form of both ingemere and ingemiscere.
It isn't limited to those two verbs. As a rule, -escere inchoative verbs borrow their perfect from their non-inchoative counterparts. Or, if you look at it another way, you can say that inchoatives don't have perfect forms. I think it's simply because the inchoatives are basically the same verbs as the non-inchoatives with just an inchoative infix added (well, the conjugation can change too), and this inchoative infix can't be added to perfect forms.
 

AoM

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It isn't limited to those two verbs. As a rule, -escere inchoative verbs borrow their perfect from their non-inchoative counterparts. Or, if you look at it another way, you can say that inchoatives don't have perfect forms. I think it's simply because the inchoatives are basically the same verbs as the non-inchoatives with just an inchoative infix added (well, the conjugation can change too), and this inchoative infix can't be added to perfect forms.
That makes sense. Just noticed silescere has no perfect. Though presumably siluit would work?
Guess why ;)
Oh. Not able to scan?
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
That makes sense. Just noticed silescere has no perfect. Though presumably siluit would work?
That would be the logical analogy ... somehow, dictionaries don't give you a perfect for silescere, but give you one for consilescere (consiluisse).

Oh. Not able to scan?

Yes, the root of the word is ingemesc- which is – v – and cannot be fit in.
 
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AoM

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Since pompa is from πομπή, it seems very fitting to use "cortege" as a translation.
 
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