Andria 119 - 136

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Hello! I submit my next bit for criticism as usual. Here it is, with a few execrable choices of English words corrected by Matthaeus:

SI. et voltu, Sosia,
adeo modesto, adeo venusto ut nil supra. 120
quia tum mihi lamentari praeter ceteras
visast et quia erat forma praeter ceteras
honesta ac liberali, accedo ad pedisequas,
quae sit rogo: sororem esse aiunt Chrysidis.
percussit ilico animum. attat hoc illud est, 125
hinc illae lacrumae, haec illast misericordia.
SO. quam timeo quorsum evadas! SI. funus interim
procedit: sequimur; ad sepulcrum venimus;
in ignem inpositast; fletur. interea haec soror
quam dixi ad flammam accessit inprudentius, 130
sati' cum periclo. ibi tum exanimatus Pamphilus
bene dissimulatum amorem et celatum indicat:
adcurrit; mediam mulierem complectitur:
"mea Glycerium," inquit "quid agis? quor te is perditum?"
tum illa, ut consuetum facile amorem cerneres, 135
reiecit se in eum flens quam familiariter!

SI. And with a face, Sosia, so modest, so beautiful, that nothing can be more. As she then seemed to me to be lamenting more than all the others and as she had a more honorable and more ladylike look than all the others, I went to the waiting-women, I asked who she was: they said she was Chrysis's sister. It stroke my heart at once. Ah, that's it, here's the reason for those tears, this is what that compassion is.
SO. How I fear how it ended up for you!
SI. Meanwhile the funeral cortège was going on: we followed; we came to the grave; they put her into the fire; they cried. Then the sister I was talking about approached the flame too imprudently, with enough of a risk. There Pamphilus out of breath with fear betrayed his well-concealed and kept-secret love: he ran forward; he clasped the woman in his arms: "my Glycerium", he said, "what are you doing? Why do you go to destroy yourself?" Then she, so that you would easily recognize a customary love, threw herself against him, crying so familiarly!
 

LCF

a.k.a. Lucifer
Then she, so that you would easily recognize a customary love, threw herself against him, crying so familiarly!

Better a description then purpose. tam familiariter se reiecit in eum, ut amorem cerneres inter eos.
// crying, she threw herself onto him in such a familiar fashion, that you would easily recognize their love etc...
 

Kosmokrator

Active Member
i invite you all in skype to read these senarii the right way ... i will act as Sosia
 
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Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Better a description then purpose. tam familiariter se reiecit in eum, ut amorem cerneres inter eos.
// crying, she threw herself onto him in such a familiar fashion, that you would easily recognize their love etc...
I didn't mean a purpose, but a result.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Ok.

Then, she threw herself onto him in such a way that you could easily recognise a customary love, crying so familiarly!
 

LCF

a.k.a. Lucifer
Ok.

Then, she threw herself onto him in such a way that you could easily recognise a customary love, crying so familiarly!

The throwing was done familiariter not the crying :)
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
I took it to be going with the crying, but I suppose it can be as you say as well.
 

Matthaeus

Vemortuicida strenuus
May I suggest the following: Then, in tears, she threw herself onto him in such a familiar way that you could easily recognise a customary love.
 
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LCF

a.k.a. Lucifer
May I suggest the following: Then, in tears, she threw herself onto him in such a familiar way that you could easily recognise a customary love.

Yeah that would work... just "customary love" is funny. Maybe "prior/already existing/mutual/whatever" or just "that they were lovers :)"
 

Matthaeus

Vemortuicida strenuus
Yeah I thought about that too.
"... easily recognise their already existing love"
 
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Godmy

A Monkey
(I ready only random bits of your praiseworthy efforts :) )

I really think that familiariter in this case connects to flēns (from the point of the word order there is no reason why it should connect to another verb and even though we can see time to time poetic elements, this is not a poetry anymore and we should see some patterns typical for a speech(in Latin more or less "prose")).

There are all sort of ways you can cry to somebody: to a stranger, to a friend, to a member of family(mother let's say).
In this case she just became unexpectedly emotional in the crying and in her behaviour unlike the sort of mourning she would have exhibited before that.
 

Aurifex

Aedilis
Staff member
The throwing was done familiariter not the crying :)
pace Godmy and the persuasiveness of word order notwithstanding, I'd have to agree with you there; I'm not sure that describing someone as crying familiarly or intimately makes a great deal of sense. Also, the point of the passage seems to be that the familiarity with which she throws herself into Pamphilus' arms is evidence of a consuetum amorem between them.
 

Godmy

A Monkey
Well, I don't see nothing wrong with different kinds of being emotional towards somebody through tears. And I tried to explain it... - it doesn't really demand such an imagination.

And it really makes a perfect sense to me (as well as throwing herself in a familiar manner makes a perfect sense, which interpretation however seems to me personally as unnecessary based on the position and possible semantics).

But w/e
 

Godmy

A Monkey
Ok, but have a look at p.303 of the notes in this book.
That's certainly a good argument that the *adverb was connected with this verb somewhere else, but it doesn't disqualify it semantically with fleo, flere (at least in my eyes).

I also see why your interpretation is good, but I don't just think it being either superior or inferior than the one hinted by the order. It simply doesn't strain my imagination to read it in the simple order it is written in and interpret it that way and I also believe I'm not abstracting it from common reality... (i.e. that is it not just me)

But thank you for the cited argument anyway.
 
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