Augustinus

Pacifica

grammaticissima

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Dei civitas habet secum, quamdiu peregrinatur in mundo, conexos communione sacramentorum, nec secum futuros in aeterna sorte sanctorum,

"the city of God has [in itself], for as long as it is exiled in this world, [some people who are] joined with it by the sharing of sacraments, but [are] not going to be with it in the eternal destiny of the saints"

That is, the Church has within itself some bad members who aren't going to enjoy eternal life with the rest of it.
 
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Katarina

Member

Dei civitas habet secum, quamdiu peregrinatur in mundo, conexos communione sacramentorum, nec secum futuros in aeterna sorte sanctorum,

"the city of God has [in itself], for as long as it is exiled in this world, [some people who are] joined with it by the sharing of sacraments, but [are] not going to be with it in the eternal destiny of the saints"

That is, the church has within itself some bad members who aren't going to enjoy eternal life with the rest of it.
So you say futuros is in accusative form because of habet? I somehow still don't get it. If you added a finite verb after nec secum, what would it be?
 

Pacifica

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So you say futuros is in accusative form because of habet?
Yes.
If you added a finite verb after nec secum, what would it be?
You can't really add any finite verb there, unless you make further changes to the wording as well.

Perhaps the easiest way to explain it to you is to tell you to think as if there were a quosdam homines or the like here:

Dei civitas habet secum, quamdiu peregrinatur in mundo, [quosdam homines] conexos communione sacramentorum, nec secum futuros in aeterna sorte sanctorum,

Then conexos and futuros are describing those homines: "some people [who are] joined... but not going to be..."

In Latin, you can use the masculine plural participles on their own and it's understood that you're talking about people even if the word homines isn't actually there.
 

Katarina

Member

Yes.

You can't really add any finite verb there, unless you make further changes to the wording as well.

Perhaps the easiest way to explain it to you is to tell you to think as if there were a quosdam homines or the like here:

Dei civitas habet secum, quamdiu peregrinatur in mundo, [quosdam homines] conexos communione sacramentorum, nec secum futuros in aeterna sorte sanctorum,

Then conexos and futuros are describing those homines: "some people [who are] joined... but not going to be..."

In Latin, you can use the masculine plural participles on their own and it's understood that you're talking about people even if the word homines isn't actually there.
Ok I think I get it! This ''futurus'' has always been quite incomprehensible to me. :think: :)
 

Katarina

Member

Perplexae quippe sunt istae duae civitates in hoc saeculo invicemque permixtae, donec ultimo iudicio dirimantur; de quarum exortu et procursu et debitis finibus quod dicendum arbitror, quantum divinitus adiuvabor, expediam propter gloriam civitatis Dei, quae alienis a contrario comparatis clarius eminebit.

About that last sentence ...
''a'' is here used like in passive (it will stand out by contrast) or like a reason (it will stand out because of contrast)?
About "alienis comparatis" I have two questions. First, why it is in plural as he would compare the city of God to more than one other city. Second, why it is in ablative? Is it ablative absolute? It still goes with "a"?
 

Katarina

Member

One other question. Why latin writers speak about themselves in plural? Is this expression of modesty or something?
 

Pacifica

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About that last sentence ...
''a'' is here used like in passive (it will stand out by contrast) or like a reason (it will stand out because of contrast)?
Neither. Note that a contrario goes with alienis comparatis, not with eminebit. You can see this because of the word order, with e contrario being sandwiched between alienis and comparatis.

A contrario means something like "on the other/opposite side". I'm not sure what it should be called.
About "alienis comparatis" I have two questions. First, why it is in plural as he would compare the city of God to more than one other city.
Alienis refers to "things" (or characteristics or so) rather than cities.
Second, why it is in ablative? Is it ablative absolute?
Yes.
It still goes with "a"?
Only contrario depends on a.
One other question. Why latin writers speak about themselves in plural? Is this expression of modesty or something?
Yes, something like that.
 
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