Biblia Vulgata

non solum autem sed et gloriamur in tribulationibus scientes quod tribulatio patientiam operatur
(Romans 5:3)

And not only so: but we glory also in tribulation, knowing that tribulation induces patience.

My question: If I want to make this a standalone sentence (IE removing the “not only, but also), can I simply crop it to “gloriamur in tribulationibus scientes quod tribulatio patientiam operatur”, or are other grammatical tweaks now required?
Thanks :)
 

meisenimverbis

Civis Illustris
Is operor transitive? :eek-2:
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Not in classical Latin, but in late and medieval Latin, yes.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Rather differently, yes. It could be something like this:

Neque id solum, sed etiam gloriamur angustiis, cum sciamus ex angustia patientiam nasci.
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
Maybe the change from scientes to cum sciamus wasn't really necessary. And it would have been ok to retain the in after gloriamur. But maybe Pacifica just wanted to show the biggest contrast possible.
 

Agrippa

Civis Illustris
Alternative translation:

Gloriamur (etiam) calamitatibus quibus perferendis nos fieri scimus patientes.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Maybe the change from scientes to cum sciamus wasn't really necessary.
There's nothing really wrong with scientes, but that use doesn't have a very classical ring to it. I don't think it would have been the preferred way to put it for a classical author. I've noticed that the use of present participles followed by speech, whether direct or indirect, (like dicens, sciens...) is very frequent in late Latin but not so in classical.
And it would have been ok to retain the in after gloriamur.
That's right; glorior in is found in classical Latin too. I just didn't think much there and wrote what first came to my mind.
I do wish the Vulgate was still available in more Classical Latin!
Don't give Pacifica ideas!
I think someone has already done it, actually. It was mentioned on the forum at some point.
 
@Pacifica - funnily enough, in the case of this specific passage from the Bible, it is the translation of the English NIV rendition that I like the best (even if it is not a faithful, literal translation of the oldest bibles).

If I want to reverse translate a couple of very short verses from English NIV to Classical/Golden Age, can I post in the paid translation section? I feel like I’ve already taken advantage of everyone’s knowledge on here!
 
If I want to reverse translate a couple of very short verses from English NIV to Classical/Golden Age, can I post in the paid translation section? I feel like I’ve already taken advantage of everyone’s knowledge on here!
It appears I cannot post a thread in the Paid Translation section ... is the service no longer encouraged, or do I just not have the correct permissions?
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
If I want to reverse translate a couple of very short verses from English NIV to Classical/Golden Age, can I post in the paid translation section?
In theory, yes, but there's been trouble for people wanting to post there recently, because you need to make a donation to LatinD to be allowed to post there, and the donation page has vanished. :/ (Maybe that should be fixed at some point when things get less busy for you, @Cinefactus ?)

Also, maybe you won't need it anyway because I've found again the thread about the classical translation of the Bible that I mentioned earlier: http://latindiscussion.com/forum/threads/sebastian-castellios-bible.30794/
 
Thank you Pacifica.

From the first scan:
“Gloriamur in calamitatibus: illud scientes, quod calamitas patientiam parit,
Patientia probationem, probatio spem.”

The NIV version (edited to stand alone), which is what I’m looking for a literal reverse translation for:
“We glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance (produces), character; and character (produces), hope.”

Happy to donate for this, if a way can be found.

Many thanks, Nick
 

Cinefactus

Censor
Staff member
It appears I cannot post a thread in the Paid Translation section ... is the service no longer encouraged, or do I just not have the correct permissions?
I have made you a Patronus. See if you can post now.

(Maybe that should be fixed at some point when things get less busy for you, @Cinefactus ?)
I am afraid it is nick that you want for that :(
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
From the first scan:
“Gloriamur in calamitatibus: illud scientes, quod calamitas patientiam parit,
Patientia probationem, probatio spem.”
Castellio did kind of a weird thing there, actually (though I think I can see where he was coming from...).
 
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