Chapter 67.10 - how to translate this literally?

Phoebus Apollo

Civis Illustris
mulieres si non essent, omnia pro luto haberemus; nunc hoc est caldum meiere et frigidum potare.

I can only find this info about the construction 'hoc est' in the L&S, but it doesn't seem to make sense if you apply it to this sentence:
B. [select] Hoc est serves to annex a more particular explanation of what has been said, that is, that is to say, namely: “in hac causa dicam de eo prius, quodapud vos plurimum debet valere, hoc est, de voluntate eorum, quibus injuriaefactae sunt,” Cic. Div. in Caecil. 4, 11: “quadriennium, hoc est, ex quo temporefundus veniit,” id. Caecin. 7, 19; 34, 100: “cum honos agebatur amplissimusfamiliae vestrae, hoc est, consulatus parentis tui,” id. Sull. 17, 49; id. Fam. 5, 12, 8: “primum quaero, qua ratione Naevius susceptum negotium non transegerit, hoc est, cur bona non vendiderit,” id. Quint. 24, 76 et saep.—Sarcastically: “uthaberet (Clodius) ad praeturam gerendam, hoc est, ad evertendam rempublicam plenum annum,” Cic. Mil. 9, 24: “at quam crebro usurpat Et consul etAntonius! Hoc est dicere: Et consul et homo impudicissimus, Et consul et homonequissimus,” id. Phil. 2, 28, 70.—
C. [select] Hoc est or ĕrat , quod , with the accessory idea of indignation or reproach, is or was it for this that, etc.: “hoc erat, alma parens, quod me pertela, per ignis Eripis, ut mediis hostem in penetralibus ... cernam?” Verg. A. 2, 664; Petr. 93.—Hence,
if we follow what it says in the L&S it would literally mean something like 'If there we’re any women, we’d have everything as cheap as dirt; now, that is to pee hot and drink cold' which doesn't really make sense. Most translations I've looked at put something like 'As it is, we have to...'. This brings me onto another question - how would you know to get across the idea of necessity/obligation ie the 'we have go/we've got to pee hot...'? Is that nuance tied up in 'hoc est' or just something you figure out from context?

 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
I take it as follows:

Now this (= the current situation or so) is [us] peeing hot and drinking cold.

The translation that you've found, "as it is, we have to...", is putting things in more idiomatic English, but there is no "having to" in the Latin. It could probably have been translated as "as it is, we pee hot and drink cold", as well, but as this isn't something they do willingly, I see how it can make sense to add "we have to". There are probably many ways it could be translated.

Of course, this hoc est has nothing to do with the "that is" one.
 

Phoebus Apollo

Civis Illustris
I take it as follows:

Now this (= the current situation or so) is [us] peeing hot and drinking cold.

The translation that you've found, "as it is, we have to...", is putting things in more idiomatic English, but there is no "having to" in the Latin. It could probably have been translated as "as it is, we pee hot and drink cold", as well, but as this isn't something they do willingly, I see how it can make sense to add "we have to". There are probably many ways it could be translated.

Of course, this hoc est has nothing to do with the "that is" one.
Thanks so much!
 
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