Destiny of Rome

Aurifex

Aedilis
Staff member
Caesar's veterans arrive more numerous each day, but who of you would dare to tell them face to face that lands must be given back by them to the republic, since the acts of the man who offered them (these lands) have now been revoked.
It doesn't say that unfortunately. It's an anacoluthon, which says: "Caesar's veterans come together in greater numbers every day, but who of you would dare to tell them face to face that by whom lands must be given back to the republic (or "lands of the republic must be given back"), since the acts of the man who donated them have now been revoked". Clearly the a quibus and his do not sit happily together.
crebriores in dies conveniunt Caesaris veterani, a quibus terras rei publicae reddendas esse, cum abrogata iam sint illius acta qui has donaverit, quis vestrum palam dicere audeat? would make better sense. There are further ways of making sense out of it, but, given the faulty nature of this speech generally, I don't think the exercise is worth the candle really.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
I don't see why it would be ok without his and wrong with it; it seems to me the only difference it makes is that between "to say" and "to tell them" and that it changes nothing for the rest.
 

Aurifex

Aedilis
Staff member
I don't see why it would be ok without his and wrong with it; it seems to me the only difference it makes is that between "to say" and "to tell them" and that it changes nothing for the rest.
Let's look at the translation more literally. "In greater numbers every day come together Caesar's veterans, by whom that the lands of the state are to be given back...who though among you would openly dare to say this to them?" The words autem and his are clearly redundant, and a good indication that the writer has finished the sentence without sufficiently attending to how he began it; for the result is an anacoluthon. If we drop autem and his, as I suggested above, we do at least get something that coheres: "In greater numbers every day come together Caesar's veterans, by whom that the lands of the state are to be given back...who among you would openly dare to say?"

his without autem would at least make some kind of sense, even though the construction would still be awkward; his and autem together are clear evidence of inattention by the writer.
 

Agapatos

New Member
Seditiones populus Romanus facturus est.
Mu, rumor[e] at enim [etenim] minante, adiactat multitudo
quae etiam vos atque domos vestras, cognatosque familiasque pugnare potest.
Equidem nullum aliud consilium nisi mali vestri impediendi video.
Caveto vero plebem dolentem, quae subito patrem perdiderit atque ad arma capienda paratissima sit.
Ille qui tanta beneficia dederat iam occisus est.
Etiam vobis aut perfugium quaerere, aut mortem timere necesse est.
Vobis rusticae villae sunt. Faciam vos gerere utile sit.
Ego te, Brute, bene novi. Nec dubito quin pro virtute in fa ["in fact"?] tibi nihil sit.
Obtineas libertatem. Ita egeris ut hanc vindicare, nec ab illo abcurrere volueris.
.


Itaque sentio senatu consultum fiat ut et omnibus coniurationis principibus venia atque impunitas detur, et omnia acta Caesaris rata sint.
Tu quidem qui acta Cesar[e]a abrogentur sentis,
num quaesisti quis ad magistratum tibi mandasset,
cuius ex auctoritate hunc honorem recepisses,
cuius ex munere magnificam domum in qua tanta convivia libenter apparares?
Equidem aperte loquor, animum vestrum appello:
Nisi omnia acta Caesaris rata erunt, omnes pleraque et magistratus perdemus.
Quanam auctoritate, si ita sit, de republica, de civitate, de populo Romano statuatis?
Crebriores in dies conveniunt Caesar[e]i veterani, a quibus
[promissum est] terras Rei Publicae reddendas esse.
Cum abrogata iam sint illius acta qui has donaverit,
quis autem vestrum palam his dicere audeat?
.

For most of the transcript above, I'd like to give due credit to "Pacis Puella" in the previous page's comments: http://latindiscussion.com/forum/latin/destiny-of-rome.18516/
(However, I myself filled in the gaps.)
 

Laurentius

Civis Illustris
Imho:
Seditiones populus Romanus facturus est. Murmurat enim minasque iactat multitudo quae etiam vos atque domos vestras, cognatosque familiasque pugnare potest. Equidem nullum aliud consilium nisi mali vestri impediendi ineo. Caveto vero plebem dolentem, quae subito patrem perdiderit atque ad arma capienda paratissima sit. Ille qui tanta beneficia dederat iam occisus est. Etiam vobis aut perfugium quaerere, aut mortem timere necesse est. Vobis rusticae villae sunt in quas iam vos gerere utile sit. Ego te, Brute, bene novi. Nec dubito quin pro virtute in qua tibi nihil sit optatius libertate ita egeris ut hanc vindicares, neque ab illo abhorrere volueris. Itaque sentio senatu consultum fiat ut et omnibus coniurationis principibus venia atque impunitas detur, et omnia acta Caesaris rata sint. Tu quidem qui acta Cesarea abrogentur sentis, num quaesisti quis ad magistratum tibi mandasset, cuius ex auctoritate hunc honorem recepisses, cuius ex munere magnificam domum in qua tanta convivia libenter apparares? Equidem aperte loquor, animum vestrum appello: nisi omnia acta Caesaris rata erunt, omnes pleraque et magistratus perdemus. Quanam auctoritate, si ita sit, de republica, de civitate, de populo Romano statuatis? Crebriores in dies conveniunt Caesarei veterani, a quibus terras Rei Publicae reddendas esse. Cum abrogata iam sint illius acta qui has donaverit, quis autem vestrum palam his dicere audeat?

Edit: I just read the discussion, fugere definitely makes more sense than gerere. I think probably he wanted to say that, but I can't hear the "fu" bit at all. :confused:
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Hi, fellow citizen!

I think that was actually the video originally posted by Aurifex, but his no longer works, so thanks for posting it again.
 
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