Dream as if you'll live forever, Live as if &c

Matthaeus

Vemortuicida strenuus
Re: Please can you help me translate?

Ah, that's good to know, Bitmap.
 

Chamaeleo

New Member
Re: Please can you help me translate?

Go with what Imber said.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Dream Like You'll Live Forever, Live Like You'll Die Today

I'm planing to do a tattoo in latin, and I need help with the translation.

The tattoo should say "dream like you will live forever, live like you will die today". I have some other ideas too, but this feels really good.

Thanks for helping me out.
 

Akela

sum
Staff member
Re: Dream Like You'll Live Forever, Live Like You'll Die Today

From the thread Bitmap linked to:
Imber Ranae dixit:
Spera quasi in perpetuum victurus. Vive quasi cras moriturus.
[to a male person]

Spera quasi in perpetuum victura. Vive quasi cras moritura.
[to a female person]

Sperate quasi in perpetuum victuri. Vivite quasi cras morituri.
[to multiple persons]
Just replace "cras" with "hodie".
 

ccollette

New Member
Dream as though you'll live forever, live as though

I was wondering what the most elegant way to say this particular quote would be, i have translated it online but there r so many ways to say it i'm confussed. I am getting a tattoo.

Dream as though you'll live forever, live as though you'll die tomorrow

this is what i came up with but im not sure if its correct;

Somniatus ut si semper victurus, vive ut si cras morituras
 

Cinefactus

Censor
Staff member
Re: Dream as though you'll live forever, live as though

No it is not correct.

We are commonly asked to translate the word dream, and I am not sure that somnio is the best word for it. Glare lists it as meaning daydream, have delusions about, especially in someone who talks wildly. He also gives a meaning, To have a remote conception of in a negative context.

I am wondering if we should be using another word. aspiro perhaps? What do people think?
 

Tacitus Arctous

Active Member
Re: Dream as though you'll live forever, live as though

To me "somniare" is good, it is represented well amongst the classical authors.

There are several conjunctions available: quasi, velut (si), tamquam (si), perinde ac si, proinde ac si.

Singular:

"Somnia, quasi perpetuo victurus (-a) sis; vive, quasi cras moriturus (-a) sis".

Plural:

"Somniate, quasi perpetuo victuri (-ae) sitis; vive, quasi cras morituri (-ae) sitis".

I presume this phrase desired is singular. Those brackets are for gender, if you are girl, you use those forms inside the brackets: "victura, moritura, victurae, moriturae".
You can also choose another conjunction if you like.
 

Cinefactus

Censor
Staff member
Re: Dream as though you'll live forever, live as though

It is well attested, but I am not sure whether it conveys the idea of longing or aspiration which is in the English. The OLD seems to imply that it is more daydreaming, or have I misunderstood it?
 

Tacitus Arctous

Active Member
Re: Dream as though you'll live forever, live as though

Cinefactus dixit:
It is well attested, but I am not sure whether it conveys the idea of longing or aspiration which is in the English. The OLD seems to imply that it is more daydreaming, or have I misunderstood it?
Yes I understand now. "Affectare" would be good here, it means "to pursue, strive after, aspire to, desire".
 

ccollette

New Member
Re: Dream as though you'll live forever, live as though

WOW! I'm more than impressed with these responses everyone seems to know thier stuff! So what's the final consensus? Singular form, and i'm a guy

"Affectare, quasi perpetuo victurus sis, vive quasi cras moriturus sis".
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
Re: Dream as though you'll live forever, live as though

hasn't this gone to the fat sticky yet? (i.e. frequently asked translations)

I'm still fond of Imber's suggestion (which is pretty similar to Tacitus's)
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7392&p=39181#p39181
 

Cinefactus

Censor
Staff member
Re: Dream as though you'll live forever, live as though

Tacitus Arctous dixit:
Yes I understand now. "Affectare" would be good here, it means "to pursue, strive after, aspire to, desire".
That's a great suggestion. I like IR's spera too.

What about for a noun to capture the positive sense of the English dream?

Bitmap dixit:
hasn't this gone to the fat sticky yet? (i.e. frequently asked translations)
It has now! I like the name too - the FAT :)
 

Tacitus Arctous

Active Member
Re: Dream as though you'll live forever, live as though

I read the link for thread put here by Bitmap. Latin is very strick about tempora and this clause must adhere to periphrasis according to consecutio temporum and because of the conjunction it must be in the subjunctive.
Imber Ranae's suggestion is good, but the omission of "esse" here might not be classical Latin. The copula "esse" is rarely omitted in the subjunctive except by late authors.
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
Re: Dream as though you'll live forever, live as though

There's no omission of esse, it's simply not needed. Quasi doesn't require a verb when it just adds an attritube.
 

Tacitus Arctous

Active Member
Re: Dream as though you'll live forever, live as though

Bitmap dixit:
There's no omission of esse, it's simply not needed. Quasi doesn't require a verb when it just adds an attritube.
Ah it is not meant to be a subordinate clause. Yes I would concur also during these circumstances.

But if it will be treated as a clause, I would not omit the verb because of the modus that needs to be in the subjunctive.

So I think we have good translations here which can be used:

"Spera, quasi in perpetuum victurus; vive, quasi cras moriturus" (no periphrasis)
"Spera, quasi perpetuo victurus sis; vive, quasi cras moriturus sis" (periphrasis)
 

Imber Ranae

Ranunculus Iracundus
Re: Dream as though you'll live forever, live as though

Yes, I meant quasi to modify the future participle directly, since this word can function equally as a conjunction and as an adverb. In the latter use it may modify adjectives, adverbs, and participles in particular (since participles basically function, semantically, as subordinate clauses in themselves). Sometimes it even modifies a single noun, in which case it may be translated variously, e.g."a sort of" or "as it were".

However, I should mention that this particular construction, quasi + future participle, does not occur in either Caesar or Cicero, the oft-cited paragon of classical Latin prose style. In fact neither uses future participles much at all outside of periphrastic constructions and the occasional appearance of futurus or venturus as an adjective meaning "future/soon to come". Cicero does use quasi with the present participle, of course, and quite often at that, but only in the poets and the (slightly) later prose authors does the word appear with the future participle (probably on analogy with Greek, or at least through its influence, considering how fond Greek is of using its future participles).

Yet many of these later authors, Seneca and Livy among them, are reputable and well regarded Latinists in their own right, nor do I think we should necessarily limit ourselves so strictly to a pure Ciceronian prose style when an elegant and pithy construction, albeit slightly unclassical, is available for our purposes of translation.
 
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