early modern Latin grammar (Excellit, si Germaniae vlla, etc.)

[Aenesidemus]

I am bothered by this passage, from the letters of Hubert Languet :

Excellit, si Germaniae vlla, curia certe Brandeburgica viris, qui scribendi munditie et elegantia pollent ; TUI tamen stili peculiaria prorsus signa sunt, quae in ista, non nominis subscriptione....

It’s the ista that bothers me. If it’s feminine singular, the only thing I can see it referring to is curia: does that make sense? – or, if it is neuter plural, then in here means into – does that make sense?

 

[Agrippa]

How about the following interpretation:
First of all I modernized the punctuation and completed the sentence:
TVI tamen stili peculiaria prorsus signa sunt, quae in ista non nominis subscriptione, sed verborum admiranda concinnitudine, perspicuitate, grauitateque rerum intelligentes agnoscunt.
Therefore I'd refer "in ista" to the ablatives "subscriptione ... concinnitudine perspectuitate grauitate".
Important contrast: "in ista non nominis subscriptione, sed verborum ... concinnitudine &c."
What's your opinion?

 

[Aenesidemus]

I think what you suggest is good. As you indicate, the original punctuation is mad. Thank you!

 

[Aenesidemus]

Another puzzle: in

Nemo autem ad patrocinium earum aptior est visus, quam pretii, quod habent, idoneus aestimator; nullius deinde aestimatio aequior, ac per eum facta, qui nobilissimum munus publici oratoris, quo officio has scripserat LANGVETVS, et ipse aliquando obiisset

-- how to connect the phrase "nobilissimum...oratoris" with the rest of the sentence. It seems just thrown in with no function.

 

[Notascooby]

Seems to be a relative clause, antecedent eum, a verb needs to be understood, maybe habet?

I'm most probably wrong though.

 

[Pacifica]

Seems to be a relative clause, antecedent eum

Indeed.

a verb needs to be understood, maybe habet?

The verb is there: obiisset.

qui nobilissimum munus publici oratoris... et ipse aliquando obiisset = "who had himself, too, once performed the most distinguished function of public orator"

 

[Aenesidemus]

OMG, I had been assuming that obiisset meant "he had died." You can see how that would mess me up. Thanks.

 

[Matthaeus]

yeah, munus obire is a standard expression

 

[Aenesidemus]

The punishment you good people get for giving such good answers is that I keep asking questions. The following is from a 1699 title/dedication page.

PRINCIPIBVS HVIVS AEVI VIRIS,
ILLVSTRISSIMO ATQVE EXCELLENTISSIMO
D. PAVLO a FVCHS
SERENISS. AC POTENT. ELECT. BRANDEBVRG.
CONSILIARIO STATVS INTIMO AC PRIMARIO,
RER. ECCLESIAST. AC FEVDAL. PRAEFECTO SVMMO,
ET RELIQVA;
DOMINO MALCHOVIAE, HEINERSDORF, FUCHSHOEFEL, WEDERAV ET WEDIN.

I'm especially puzzled by that STATVS. it can't be dative; I don't think nominative would make sense; so I guess it's genitive, but how to construe the whole thing?

 

[Pacifica]

I guess it has a non-classical meaning here, "state" in the sense of a political entity. So "counselor/adviser of the state", "state counselor/adviser".

 

[Aenesidemus]

Ah, yes, it seems simple now that you explain it. Thanks.