Flammas eius Lucifer matutinus invéniat ille, inquam, Lucifer, qui nescit occásum Christus Fílius

Since I'm new, i did read before i posted, but i accidently did it wrong obviously. The full verse is;

Flammas eius Lucifer matutinus invéniat
ille, inquam, Lucifer, qui nescit occásum
Christus Fílius tuus,
qui, regréssus ab ínferis, humáno géneri serénus illúxit,
et vivit et regnat in sæcula sæculórum.


I am of italian descent, took latin in highschool, got like a 95% grade and usually i can determine somewhat what is being said in the Latin since i am fully aware that italian is an subset of latin as other Roman era languages of which some are the indo-european branch.

However, as of the last years and the challenges of life i've become rusty on this. I am fully aware that google translate and others do not the give you a proper translation and basically give you enough to basically get the idea but still it can send one thinking the translation is saying something it isn't. So for me what i got from this and remember i'm rusty right now and i can pick out the words like Christ, Your Son, and others but of course right now it's incomprehensible to be in it's full light.

If there is anything i am also supposed to add with this post for this phrase to be properly translated, please let me know and i will serve the request faithfully.

Thank you for your time.


 

Bestiola

Speculatrix
Staff member
Check out HERE:

May the Morning Star which never sets
find this flame still burning:
Christ, that Morning Star,
who came back from the dead,
and shed his peaceful light on all mankind,
your Son, who lives and reigns for ever and ever.
 

Imperfacundus

Reprobatissimus
"May the morning star find his flames,
That Lucifer who knows no setting, your son Christ,
who, once he returned from hell, shone serenely upon the human race,
and lives and rules unto perpetuity."

Edit: Fine, go with the "official" translation. Goddamn conformist =P
 

Nikolaos

schmikolaos
Staff member
The second Lucifer probably refers to Christ as well. How confusing it is for the word to mean both Satan and Jesus simultaneously...

Edit: No! Be original!
 
Thank you all so much for your input, especially Infacundus and Nikolaos. Infacundus, I agree, the first translation is the 'official' but the latin text is obviously expressing a 'catholic sanitized' version of the tranlsation. Nikolaos, you don't realize with what you said, how grateful I am, and how much you just confirmed some pointed facts about what the RCC hides and how much you just truly shone light upon the true nature of the what is really being said since the RCC is the farthest thing from what they claim to be. You have both indelibly exposed the true nature of the translation, and for that, i am ever thankful.
 

Nikolaos

schmikolaos
Staff member
Well, the Vulgate actually uses a different word for Lucifer (the Devil) and the Morning Star (Christ), so this poem doesn't follow the example of the Latin Bible. I don't know about the original Greek. But, lucifer (literally "light-bringer") really was a name for Venus, the morning star, and I don't think the writer intended to associate Christ with Satan.

I myself am not Catholic, but we do have Catholic members. I'm not sure what implications you drew concerning the RCC, but let's keep religious debate to a minimum on the forum.

Edit: If "returned from Hell" is part of it, I think even the KJV says something of the sort - it seems to me to simply mean "the grave" in many contexts.
 
Ok will keep it at minimum. I'm curious, what different word for Lucifer does the Vulgate use? and for Morning Star? The writer wasn't associating Christ with satan, since when they wrote such things down, it was a double meaning deliberately, one for the inner circle, and the one for the masses. Again many thanks for your insight and assistance. No worries, i'm not catholic but and ex-catholic 0f 30 years and now a born again bible believing (TR & KJV) blood bought ready to be martyred for Jesus disciple.

God Bless.

by the way, how i do personally message you? I would like to ask you something concerning my account.
 

Nikolaos

schmikolaos
Staff member
Lucifer where the KJV says "Lucifer", and stella [splendida et] matutina in Revelations for "the [bright and] morning star".

Members with fewer than 25 posts can't send PMs - it's an anti-spam feature. You can send me an email at nikolaos@latindiscussion.com, though.
 

James Fanning

New Member
Hello
I was set a task for an apologetics class, and it involves, partially, the translation of this text. I have already tried google translate (don't hate me too much, it seemed like a good idea at the time) but that translation was somewhat nonsensical. I would appreciate any help with this.
Thanks
J.Fanning

flammas eius lucifer matutinus inbentiat ille inquam lucifer qui nescit occasum christus filius tuus qui regressus ab inferis humano generi serenus illuxit et bibit et regnat in saecula saeculorum
I do apologise, this in fact the full text to be translated.
 

Imber Ranae

Ranunculus Iracundus
Merged by Iohannes Aurum
 

dezeag5069

New Member
Lucifer just means light-bearer, morning star, and yes venus because HE (Christ) IS THE LAST STAR (Last Savior) SEEN IN DAWNS NEW LIGHT (His new salvation). Since satan is described as a false-christ (aka a fallen star) it makes sense they'd both have the name bringer of light. Jesus Christ IS THE ONE AND ONLY BRINGER OF LIGHT! To the baby christian this may seem like its talking about satan but it's not as it says in​
2 Corinthians 11:14 "No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light"

he does not know how, I say, O Lucifer (bringer of light), the morning star, captive of flames (all the previous names are referring to satan because this description means tied up by the flames of hell), of His going down of Christ Your Son, who is back from the dead and shed his peaceful light on all mankind, and drink, and reigns for ever and ever!

Satan does not understand why God wants to save mankind, he sees us as lower that the angels, created last, and weak. While God wants mankind exalted, praised, and comforted by His angels and satan hates us for that...
 
Top