Freedom is worth fighting for

A

Anonymous

Guest

Hello everyone. I'm looking for the Latin translation of the phrase "Freedom is worth fighting for". I hoped that since the phrase is rather commonly used maybe it has been translated already but an internet search showed nothing. My knowledge of Latin is rudimentary, I believe (but am not really sure) that the phrase should consist of three words with the first being libertas, second being certatio or luctatio in whatever case the verb requires and the third being the verb in 3.sg act. ind. pres. form, but I'm not sure what the verb should be. I thought of merere, but I'm not sure if it has this exact meaning. Any help would be appreciated.
 

Iynx

Consularis

  • Consularis

Location:
T2R6WELS, Maine, USA
Boy, that's not easy.

It seems to me that in general a good way to express "X is worth Ying" in Latin is to use a gerundive:

Tertia basianda (est):

Tertia is to be smooched = should be smooched = is worth smooching.

The main trouble with this construction here is that it requires a verb that means "to fight for", with a direct object-- and I can't come up with one. One might say

Libertas adfectanda (est)

But I think that adfecto is far too weak a word in this context-- more "to strive for" than "to fight for".

Another approach might be to use dignus, and some gerund:

Libertas digna pugnando (est)

"Liberty is worthy of fighting"; or as you say, mereo:

Libertas pugnandum meret

But these seem clumsy do me. We might try a circumlocution with debeo:

Pro libertate pugnare debemus

But that really seems to lack the punch of the English version.

My choice:

Libertas luctationem meret

"Liberty deserves struggle".

But I'm not real happy with this. Maybe another of our colleagues has a better idea?
 

deudeditus

Civis Illustris

  • Civis Illustris

Location:
California
maybe... maybe ; libertas pugnando adfectanda.. but i don't like it.

personally, i like your choice; meret libertas pugnandum, or something like that, but as i tend to like the word proelium, maybe meret libertas proeliandum?, if that is the correct form for proeliari... i don't know.

or maybe propugnare. I know it doesn't mean 'to fight for', but 'defend' may be close enough.

-Jon
 

Marius Magnus

Civis Illustris

  • Civis Illustris

Location:
California
My Latin is nowhere near as good as you folks', however, looking at the English I think this...when we say "to fight for liberty", this can also be rendered "on behalf of liberty", "for the cause of liberty", etc. I don't think "liberty" is a direct object here at all, but more a beneficiary. So, rather than try to find a verb for "to fight for", why not simply use the verb "to fight", and put "liberty" in the dative or ablative (whichever more properly renders "on behalf of")? Then you can probably get this into a "-nda est" form of phrase as well...
 

deudeditus

Civis Illustris

  • Civis Illustris

Location:
California
we could do that, but we'd have to change the meaning. 'Freedom is worth fighting for' is hard to express with 'freedom' not as the object. 'It is worth fighting for freedom' comes close, but I don't know how to render it into Latin correctly... meretur pro libertate pugnandum?... It doesn't really make sense, though. maybe bonum est pro libertate pugnare/proeliari/etc., but that changes the meaning quite a bit.. nesheeyo ekweedem sed fourtassey aleeyuse sheeat.

-Jon
 

Iynx

Consularis

  • Consularis

Location:
T2R6WELS, Maine, USA
1. Proelior is of the first, so proeliandum is indeed the form, deudedite. But if we were going to go that route, why not just use the handy noun:
Libertas meret proelium?

2. I like the dative idea, Mario, but I don't see how we could unambiguously combine it with the gerundive + sum ("passive periphrastic"). The problem is that the dative in such constructions is already spoken for-- it's the agent. Hoc est faciendum mihi means "This is to be done by me". So how would one know whether Est pugnadum libertati meant "Liberty is worth fighting for" or "Liberty needs to fight"? I suppose we could use pro libertate...

3. Which brings us to to one of deudeditus' suggestions: bonum est pro libertate proeliari. I think this is the best idea yet. Perhaps it would be even better if we replaced bonum with dignum:

Dignum est pro libertate proeliari.

For the benefit of the OP I should perhaps explain that this literally means: "Right it is to do battle for liberty".

Sounds good. But the meaning (as Jon points out) has drifted a little from the English, hasn't it?

What do you guys think?
 

Cato

Consularis

  • Consularis

Location:
Chicago, IL
This is an interesting discussion. Deudedite, you are likely aware your suggestion bonum est pro libertate pugnare/proeliari is something of an allusion/response to the famous Latin quote Dulce et decorum est pro partria mori. I like that; Horace's quote--even in context--is a little troubling after a 20th century that has seen just how terrible and useless "dying for one's country" can be (cf. Wilfred Owen's poem), and deserves a comment.
 

deudeditus

Civis Illustris

  • Civis Illustris

Location:
California
I had not even thought of our Horace. :oops: dulce mori? :shock:... interfectus non potest interficere. :lol: :lol: j/k.

-Jon
 
Top