Grant me the power of augmenting my ability to remember.

Would it be accurate for one to use an infinitive for the verb in bold in the following sentences when translating them into Latin?
Grant me the power of augmenting my ability to remember.
Da mihi potestatem augendi meam facultatem meminisse.
Grant me the power of removing temporarily the ability to remember from another.
Da mihi potestatem tollendi ad tempus facultatem meminisse ex alio.
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
No, you'd need a gerund (= "of remembering"); but as far as I know, memini doesn't have a gerund, so this poses some issues. However, one could use memoria tenere = to hold in memory, i.e. remember.

Da mihi potestatem augendi facultatem meam memoria tenendi.

Others may have better solutions.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Or use the noun memoria (in the genitive memoriae).
 

Iáson

Cívis Illústris
Da mihi potestatem augendi facultatem meam memoria tenendi.

Aren't gerunds with direct objects generally replaced with the gerundive construction? So that it would be dá mihi potestátem augendae facultátis memoriae meae tenendae? Or with Pacifica's suggestion dá mihi potestátem memoriae meae augendae?
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
Aren't gerunds with direct objects generally replaced with the gerundive construction? So that it would be dá mihi potestátem augendae facultátis memoriae meae tenendae? Or with Pacifica's suggestion dá mihi potestátem memoriae meae augendae?
They are, but Darklander for some reason has shown an aversion to it in the past (I'm not sure why.) ;)
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
Aren't gerunds with direct objects generally replaced with the gerundive construction? So that it would be dá mihi potestátem augendae facultátis memoriae meae tenendae?
Though here might be a good place to deliberately avoid it due to that nasty, and confusing, pile-up of genitives (or just use Pacifica's more concise solution instead. :D)
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Memoria isn't a direct object in Callaina's version, though. She means memoria(abl.) tenendi ("of keeping (things) in memory"), not memoriam meam tenendi/memoriae meae tenendae ("of keeping my memory"), which would seem to mean something slightly different.
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
Memoria isn't a direct object in Callaina's version, though. She means memoria(abl.) tenendi ("of keeping (things) in memory"), not memoriam meam tenendi/memoriae meae tenendae ("of keeping my memory"), which would seem to mean something slightly different.
Oh, true; I had forgotten that. But it's still a bit of a pile-up of genitives even moving memoria mea back into the ablative.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
You mean only memoria. There's no need to add any mea to it.

But da mihi potestatem augendae facultatis meae memoria tenendi doesn't strike me as too many genitive. Things are clear because the genders (of augendae facultatis meae and tenendi) are different. On the other hand, if the genders are the same... I think I'd rather avoid da mihi potestatem augendae facultatis meae memoriae, and prefer da mihi potestatem augendi facultatem meam memoriae, which seems clearer.
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
But da mihi potestatem augendae facultatis meae memoria tenendi doesn't strike me as too many genitive. Things are clear because the genders (of augendae facultatis meae and tenendi) are different.
Oh, good point.
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
On the other hand, if the genders are the same... I think I'd rather avoid da mihi potestatem augendae facultatis meae memoriae, and prefer da mihi potestatem augendi facultatem meam memoriae, which seems clearer.
Oh -- so you didn't want to remove facultatem, as Iáson had thought? Can one augment just one's memory, or does one need to augment one's faculty of memory?
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
I had the impression that by "ability to remember", Darklander meant the ability not to forget things/to keep things in mind, but, after all, he hasn't really given any context so I suppose it's also possible that he means to ability to call things back to mind, in which case recordandi could be used.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Oh -- so you didn't want to remove facultatem, as Iáson had thought? Can one augment just one's memory, or does one need to augment one's faculty of memory?
No, I didn't want to remove facultatem/facultatis. I guess you can also augment just your memory, but that's farther from the original (and also potentially ambiguous — i.e. it could be about the memory others have of you).
 
First off, I would like to apologize for my lack of context.
Secondly the first incantation is meant to keep the spell caster from forgetting and that was the best way I could think of to word it. As for the second incantation, that one is meant to ensure that the target of the spell is unable to remember anything that happened after that particular spell has been cast. I hope this helps

Also so I am clear the following would be the better translation of the first incantation?

Da mihi potestatem augendi facultatem meam memoriae tenendi.

Or would I be best to remove the meam but keep memoriae in the genitive?
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
If you want the one with memoria tenere, then:

Da mihi potestatem augendi facultatem meam memoria tenendi or Da mihi potestatem augendae facultatis meae memoria tenendi (they are equivalent.)

If you want the slightly shorter one proposed by Pacifica, then: Da mihi potestatem augendi facultatem meam memoriae.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Confirming the above.
 

Iáson

Cívis Illústris
Memoria isn't a direct object in Callaina's version, though. She means memoria(abl.) tenendi ("of keeping (things) in memory"), not memoriam meam tenendi/memoriae meae tenendae ("of keeping my memory"), which would seem to mean something slightly different.

Oh yes, sorry. I still don't really like the use of a direct object with a gerund though. An út clause might be neater. But I may just be being too fussy.
 
Would Pacifica's translation: Da mihi potestatem augendi facultatem meam memoriae. be: Grant me the power of augmenting my ability of memory?
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Yes.
 
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