Greek - need help with "προθέμενος"

Rocit

Member
Hello everyone!
Got stuck with a couple of sentences of "ΠΕΡΙ ΤΟΥ ΑΙΣΩΠΟΥ"

He tried to read morals to people in order to tell them, what're they wrong about and then:
Ταῦτα δὲ ἐποίησε τούτω τῶ τρόπω, ῶ ἂν μάλιστα ἠνείχοντο, ἡδόμενοι ἐπὶ τῶ γελοίω καὶ τοῖς μύθοις.
This he did in a way, in which he was especially good, ἡδόμενοι (making people happy???) with funny stories.
Καὶ δὴ καὶ ἀπὸ σμικρῶν πραγμάτων διδάσκει μεγάλα προθέμενος γὰρ τὸν λόγον ἐπάγει τὸ πρᾶττε ἢ μὴ πρᾶττε.
Which is why with little stories he teaches μεγάλα προθέμενος because the fable adds what you should do or what you shouldn't do.

And btw, why is "τον λογον" has got the accusative here?


Thanks for help!
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Hello,

I'm not very good at Greek yet, but:

Ταῦτα δὲ ἐποίησε τούτω τῶ τρόπω, ῶ ἂν μάλιστα ἠνείχοντο, ἡδόμενοι ἐπὶ τῶ γελοίω καὶ τοῖς μύθοις.

ἠνείχοντο is plural, and ἡδόμενοι is referring to its subject.

It looks to me like something like: "And he did this (these things) in the way in which they kept doing most when taking pleasure in what is funny and in tales."

Καὶ δὴ καὶ ἀπὸ σμικρῶν πραγμάτων διδάσκει μεγάλα (I think there should be a comma here) προθέμενος γὰρ τὸν λόγον ἐπάγει τὸ πρᾶττε ἢ μὴ πρᾶττε.

Looks to me like something along the lines of: "And indeed even from little things he teaches great things, for, after having put forth the discourse, he brings forwards what you should or should not do."

τον λογον is in the accusative because it's a direct object; of προθέμενος it seems to me.

But do wait for someone better to turn up and have a look at this, my translations are only attempts with rather clumsy results and I may be missing a few things.
 

Nooj

Civis Illustris
Hello everyone!
Got stuck with a couple of sentences of "ΠΕΡΙ ΤΟΥ ΑΙΣΩΠΟΥ"

He tried to read morals to people in order to tell them, what're they wrong about and then:
Ταῦτα δὲ ἐποίησε τούτω τῶ τρόπω, ῶ ἂν μάλιστα ἠνείχοντο, ἡδόμενοι ἐπὶ τῶ γελοίω καὶ τοῖς μύθοις.
This he did in a way, in which he was especially good, ἡδόμενοι (making people happy???) with funny stories.
Καὶ δὴ καὶ ἀπὸ σμικρῶν πραγμάτων διδάσκει μεγάλα προθέμενος γὰρ τὸν λόγον ἐπάγει τὸ πρᾶττε ἢ μὴ πρᾶττε.
Which is why with little stories he teaches μεγάλα προθέμενος because the fable adds what you should do or what you shouldn't do.

And btw, why is "τον λογον" has got the accusative here?


Thanks for help!
first comes from dio chrysostom,

13 Εἰσὶ δὲ οἳ καὶ τὸν Αἴσωπον οἴονται τοιοῦτόν τινα γενέσθαι, σοφὸν μὲν καὶ φρόνιμον, αἱμύλον δὲ ἄλλως καὶ ξυνθεῖναι λόγους ἱκανὸν οἵων αὐτοὶ ἥδιστ᾽ ἂν ἀκούοιεν. καὶ τυχὸν οὐ13 παντάπασι ψευδῆ οἴονται καὶ14 τῷ ὄντι Αἴσωπος τοῦτον τὸν τρόπον ἐπειρᾶτο νουθετεῖν τοὺς ἀνθρώπους καὶ ἐπιδεικνύναι αὐτοῖς ἅττα ἁμαρτάνουσιν, ὡς ἂν μάλιστα ἠνείχοντο αὐτόν, ἡδόμενοι ἐπὶ τῷ γελοίῳ καὶ τοῖς μύθοις· ὥσπερ τὰ παιδία ταῖς τίτθαις μυθολογουμέναις προσέχουσί τε καὶ ἥδονται. ἀπὸ δὴ τῆς τοιαύτης δόξης, ὡς καὶ παρ᾽ ἡμῶν ἀκουσόμενοί p188τι τοιοῦτον οἷον Αἴσωπος ἔλεγεν ἢ ὁποῖον Σωκράτης ἢ ὁποῖα Διογένης, προσίασι καὶ ἐνοχλοῦσι καὶ οὐ δύνανται ἀπέχεσθαι ὃν ἂν ἴδωσιν ἐν τούτῳ τῷ σχήματι, οὐ μᾶλλον ἢ τὰ ὄρνεα ἐπειδὰν ἴδωσι γλαῦκα.

i would understand ἂν μάλιστα ἠνείχοντο as potential but i'm unsure of the signification that ὡς here has. perhaps indirect discourse, [thinking] 'that they could put up with him most when they were enjoying humour and stories'.

Καὶ δὴ καὶ ἀπὸ σμικρῶν πραγμάτων διδάσκει μεγάλα προθέμενος γὰρ τὸν λόγον ἐπάγει τὸ πρᾶττε ἢ μὴ πρᾶττε.
from philostratus' life of apollonius.

from subjects of little import, he teaches lofty matters. by putting forward the account/story, he leads [the listeners] onto what should and shouldn't be done.

i understand τὸ πρᾶττε ἢ μὴ πρᾶττε as the making into a noun of the imperatives.
 
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