Gregorius Magnus

Gregorius Textor

Civis Illustris
(This account is based on what I read about Gregory the Great in Bede's History and in The Catholic Encyclopedia (1909).

The more I practice writing, the more easily the words begin to flow! -- though still not in good grammatical order, I'm afraid.

I've written out some of the numbers to check whether I know how to inflect them when reading.)

VITA GREGORII MAGNI

Gregorius Magnus Papa et Doctor Ecclesiae fuit.

Circa anno Dominicae incarnationis DXL (quingentesimo quadragesimo) natus est, filius Gordiani, viri patricii divissimique.

In eo tempore Imperator Cōnstantīnopole, non Romā, erat. Gothi, gens barbara, cum puer esset Gregorius, bis Romam obsederunt et ceperunt atque recesserunt.

Gregorius, annos circa triginta natos, praefectus Romae factus est. In saecula inclute cursurus esse videtur.

At mox monachus factus est. Annos tres in monasterium vixit. Deinde a Papa Pelagio II (secundus) missus est nuntius (apocrisarius) Cōnstantīnopolitam. Ibi coepit librum Magna Moralia scribere, commentarium super libro Iob, in quo, ut Beda scripsit, "librum beati Iob magnis involutum obscuritatibus mystica interpretatione discuteret." (Historia Ecclesiastica Gentis Anglorum, II, 1)

Romam rediit, et Abbas factus est.

Anno DXC (quingentesimo nonagesimo), Pelago defuncto, Gregorius Papa factus est, a populo Romae electus.

Commentarium super Iob complevit et alterum librum egregium scripsit, qui vocatur Pastoralis Curae.

Misit Augustinum sociosque in Britanniam ad praedicandum Anglis Evangelium.

Anno DCIV (sescentesimo quarto) mortuus est, et statim sanctum acclamatus est a populo.
 

Agrippa

Civis Illustris
Agrippa Gregorio Textori viro doctissimo sal.
Placent mihi maxima ex parte verba tua. Qua de re (pace tua dixerim) quam paucissima emendavi. Nescio an sint qui a me dissentiant. :think:

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DE VITA GREGORII MAGNI
Gregorius Magnus Papa et Doctor Ecclesiae fuit.
Circa annum Dominicae incarnationis DXL (quingentesimum quadragesimum) natus est, filius Gordiani, viri patricii divitissimique (= ditissimique).
Eo tempore Imperator Cōnstantīnopoli, non Romae erat. Gothi, gens barbara, cum puer esset Gregorius, bis Romam obsederunt et ceperunt atque inde recesserunt.
Gregorius, annos circa triginta natus, praefectus Romae factus est. Viam civilem laudis et honoris inisse videbatur.
At mox monachus factus est. Annos tres in monasterio vixit. Deinde a Papa Pelagio II (secundo) missus est nuntius (apocrisiarius) Cōnstantīnopolim. Ibi coepit librum, qui inscribitur Magna Moralia, componere, commentarium in librum Iob, in quo, ut Beda scripsit, "librum beati Iob magnis involutum obscuritatibus mystica interpretatione discuteret." (Historia Ecclesiastica Gentis Anglorum, II, 1)
Romam rediit, et Abbas factus est.
Anno DXC (quingentesimo nonagesimo), Pelago defuncto, Gregorius Papa factus est, a populo Romae electus.
Commentarium in Iob complevit et alterum librum egregium scripsit, qui vocatur Pastoralis Curae.
Misit Augustinum sociosque in Britanniam ad praedicandum Anglis Evangelium.
Anno DCIV (sescentesimo quarto) mortuus est, et statim sanctus acclamatus est a populo.
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Auctore Pacifica emendavi: annos circa triginta natus
 
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Gregorius Textor

Civis Illustris
Agrippa Gregorio Textori viro doctissimo sal.
Salve, Agrippa. Non doctissimus sum!
I appreciate your taking the time to make corrections. I understand the reasons for some of them, and will consider the rest carefully in hopes of understanding them also.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member

Gregorius Textor

Civis Illustris
Finally I have a chance to come back to this. Thank you, Agrippa and Pacifica.

This thread has has provided the reverse of my usual experience here when writing in Latin: instead of being told what's wrong with my sentences and having to fix them myself, I am given the corrections and have to figure out why they are better. It's instructive either way.

Now I would like to summarize some of the things I have learned or been reminded of, and ask a few questions. The points I don't think I understand are #9 and #10 below.

1. Remember not to use "in" with ablative expressions of time when. (But, I think, in ecclesiastical Latin [which I was not trying to write here], it is permissible to use "in"? I have seen "In diebus illis" many times.)

2. In expressions of time when, the preposition "circa" requires the accusative, even though otherwise it should be ablative.

3. Remember to use locative case for place where expressions using a city name.

4. divis has the genitive superlative form divitissimi, which is needed here to agree with the genitive Gordiani.

5. bis Romam obsederunt et ceperunt atque recesserunt. --> atque inde recesserunt

because Romam is accusative, which would imply place to which, but they were leaving Rome, not going to it.

6. While I do look out for noun-adjective agreement, I keep missing some of them. This will get better with practice, and even automatic, I hope.

7. Constantinopolis has the unusual accusative form Constantinopolim. I found that this feature is not peculiar to Constantinopolis but applies generally to town and river names ending in -is.

8. in, not super, is used for the relationship between a commentary and that which is commented about. (What a versatile word that Latin "in" is!)

9. Anno DCIV mortuus est, et statim sanctum acclamatus est a populo. --> sanctus

I was thinking I should use the accusative sanctum because of indirect discourse. However, when I make the subject explicit, "Gregorius sanctus acclamatus est" seems better, to my eyes and ears, but I don't know why.

And how about "et statim Gregorium sanctum esse acclamaverunt populus", would that also work?

10. In saecula inclute cursurus esse videtur. --> Viam civilem laudis et honoris inisse videbatur.

I understand that the imperfect videbatur is better here than videtur, which I probably thought was perfect tense but is actually present.

I don't understand the reason for the other changes in this sentence. At first I thought "Viam civilem laudis et honoris" must be a set phrase meaning the course of civil honors, but my search for this in the corpus didn't turn up anything.

What I was trying to say here was that he seemed to be going to run a brilliant course in the world. I was thinking of something like the classical "course of honors", although at this date, it must not have been quite the same course.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
1. Remember not to use "in" with ablative expressions of time when. (But, I think, in ecclesiastical Latin [which I was not trying to write here], it is permissible to use "in"? I have seen "In diebus illis" many times.)
Yes, you find that quite a lot in ecclesiastical Latin.
2. In expressions of time when, the preposition "circa" requires the accusative, even though otherwise it should be ablative.
It is never supposed to take the ablative.
4. divis has the genitive superlative form divitissimi, which is needed here to agree with the genitive Gordiani.
You mean dives.
5. bis Romam obsederunt et ceperunt atque recesserunt. --> atque inde recesserunt

because Romam is accusative, which would imply place to which, but they were leaving Rome, not going to it.
Maybe that was Agrippa's thought, but I don't know. I'll let him confirm or not. In my opinion, even without inde it's pretty clear that they went away from Rome rather than to Rome. I think inde can be included but is just optional.
9. Anno DCIV mortuus est, et statim sanctum acclamatus est a populo. --> sanctus

I was thinking I should use the accusative sanctum because of indirect discourse. However, when I make the subject explicit, "Gregorius sanctus acclamatus est" seems better, to my eyes and ears, but I don't know why.
We've got a passive verb here, acclamatus est. The implied "he" is the subject of that verb. Any noun or adjective etc. referring to the subject must agree with it.
And how about "et statim Gregorium sanctum esse acclamaverunt populus", would that also work?
The verb (acclamaverunt, plural) doesn't agree with the subject (populus, singular). Apart from that it makes sense.
10. In saecula inclute cursurus esse videtur. --> Viam civilem laudis et honoris inisse videbatur.

I understand that the imperfect videbatur is better here than videtur, which I probably thought was perfect tense but is actually present.

I don't understand the reason for the other changes in this sentence. At first I thought "Viam civilem laudis et honoris" must be a set phrase meaning the course of civil honors, but my search for this in the corpus didn't turn up anything.

What I was trying to say here was that he seemed to be going to run a brilliant course in the world. I was thinking of something like the classical "course of honors", although at this date, it must not have been quite the same course.
I frankly wasn't sure what you meant when I first read the Latin but if anything, it sounded to me like a statement that he would be famous forever. In saecula usually means "for the ages", i.e. "for ever and ever". "In the world" would be (in ecclesiastical Latin) in saeculo (ablative, singular).
 

Gregorius Textor

Civis Illustris
2. In expressions of time when, the preposition "circa" requires the accusative, even though otherwise it should be ablative.
It is never supposed to take the ablative.
What I meant to say there was that expressions of time when should use the ablative case, as in eo tempore, ordinarily, but the use of "circa" forces it to be ablative.

Yes to all the rest of your reply!
 

Agrippa

Civis Illustris
...
10. In saecula inclute cursurus esse videtur. --> Viam civilem laudis et honoris inisse videbatur.
...
What I was trying to say here was that he seemed to be going to run a brilliant course in the world. I was thinking of something like the classical "course of honors", although at this date, it must not have been quite the same course.
That‘s exactly what I meant by formulating Viam civilem laudis et honoris inisse videbatur.

Civilis: i. e. relating to political not to spiritual and ecclesiastical life; therefore civilis = saecularis, profanus.

Another perhaps clearer translation:

Saecularem cursum amplissimorum honorum ingressus esse videbatur.

As for the rest, I completely agree with Pacifica.
 

Agrippa

Civis Illustris
You‘re welcome, Gregorius Textor! :)
 
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