How in the world to get better at Latin without a teacher?

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
Funnily enough, I think safe for a few excerpts, I've never actually read any Caesar.
Barring a few excerpts in my correspondence course and some that were posted on the forum, I came to Caesar rather late. I read De Bello Gallico and De Bello Civili only a few months ago. I just didn't feel particularly attracted to it.
 
 

Dantius

Homo Sapiens

  • Civis Illustris

Location:
in orbe lacteo
The Lingua Latina books don't include any Caesar, but Caesar was the first author I read on my own.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
May I ask why these books are controversial?
What's controversial about them is mostly, I think, the method in which they were meant to be used. LLPSI was written with the intent that students would simply start reading it and acquire the vocab and grammar in an "immersive" sort of way, without much (if any) laying-out of grammatical rules. While some people think that's a great idea, others, including me, think that that method must be inefficient, as things would seem to go faster when students are given the basic rules from the get go, rather than left to figure them out by themselves. The latter is possible, of course, but it seems to me that it takes much more time.

Now, many people actually use LLPSI in addition to more structured study of the grammar. In that case, I think it's fine. The author's Latin is very good (unlike that of some other textbook authors).
 

Hadassah Branch

Member

Location:
In A Random Forest
Reading
Barring a few excerpts in my correspondence course and some that were posted on the forum, I came to Caesar rather late. I read De Bello Gallico and De Bello Civili only a few months ago. I just didn't feel particularly attracted to it.
Reading what I have of Caesar, I find it interesting mostly as a historical reference, especially on ancient customs and the Druids.
Most of what I have been reading though are works not written by Roman authors. Milton's elegies (some of you know how that was like), and Faust in Latin. But I have lots of books on paper by Roman authors (my father was a Classics major), that I'll get to in time.
So... everyone's telling me that I'm not missing on anything much without the academic style?
Hmmm.
 

Hadassah Branch

Member

Location:
In A Random Forest
Now, many people actually use LLPSI in addition to more structured study of the grammar. In that case, I think it's fine. The author's Latin is very good (unlike that of some other textbook authors).
Natural Method, they seem to call it. My dad started me on similar books when I was 9 (look where that got me). I had a pretty much convoluted concept of declensions and conjugations and the rest.

But you're right. Returning to this method now, I find it very helpful. Thanks again, Dantius!
 
B

Bitmap

Guest


Because what you describe is the way I learnt Latin as well (and essentially also English, French and Ancient Greek): You were given a rule and you just learnt it and tried to apply it somehow.
Now, given that I don't think I'm too bad at English or Latin, and considering that your English and Latin are not too shabby, either, I'm sometimes inclined to think that this way of learning a language is quite effective.
However, in modern didactics / language teaching, one of the gravest sins you can commit is to give people some grammatical rule and tell them to just ******* learn it.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
However, in modern didactics / language teaching, one of the gravest sins you can commit is to give people some grammatical rule and tell them to just ******* learn it.
Really? Sigh. :(
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
Immersion does help tremendously*, but I think most people need both (at least to learn as efficiently as possible). Immersion probably works best, in most cases, after you've aquired some basics. Now, it's always possible that some people are wired differently.

*What comes closest to immersion in Latin is reading Latin authors.
 
B

Bitmap

Guest

Immersion does help tremendously*, but I think most people need both (at least to learn as efficiently as possible). Immersion probably works best, in most cases, after you've aquired some basics.
That's about as old school as it can get ;) Sorry, I'm not trying to make fun of you, I think the very same way :(

Now, it's always possible that some people are wired differently.

It's true that there's not a single teaching or learning method that suits everyone ... It just makes me wonder how no one ever notices that even the most super modern teaching strategies essentially yield no other results than those numb, barbarian methods of a dark and forgotten past. I have a feeling that most theory in pedagogics or didactics is not really supported by a scientific basis (some of it is counter-scientific), but motivated by societal or political claims.

It has to be said, though, that teaching can also be more fun if you're expected to do more than just telling people the rules they need to abide by... even though I think it's less effective.
 

Hadassah Branch

Member

Location:
In A Random Forest
That's about as old school as it can get ;) Sorry, I'm not trying to make fun of you, I think the very same way :(

It's true that there's not a single teaching or learning method that suits everyone ... It just makes me wonder how no one ever notices that even the most super modern teaching strategies essentially yield no other results than those numb, barbarian methods of a dark and forgotten past.
I have been an informal (not licensed) language teacher and tutor for four years. I didn't go through any theory or pedagogy to teach. Just solid application.

But through experience I learned that while a lot of students learn differently, a skillful teacher can condition, how creepily Pavlov, their/her/his (ah, the convenience of gender neutral pronouns) student. This conditioning is reflected in the classroom, where everybody is taught pretty much the same way. In my opinion, there's no need for excessive stylizing in the teaching world.
 
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