How many languages is it "safe" to study at one time?

[Nikolaos]

Thanks, that's exactly what I needed.

 

[Reziac]

Russian is my first language. I grew up in Ukraine, and as many people in former republics of Soviet Union, my family was Russian-speaking.

My college roommates' family had escaped from the Ukraine during the Cold War (so the two sons mostly grew up in Chicago). They didn't speak much Russian, tho the younger brother was re-teaching himself Ukranian, which I gather is similar but not identical to Russian.

 

[Akela]

The two languages are very similar in a sense that if you know one, you will be able to learn the other easier, but it is not guaranteed. My mother had moved to Ukraine when she was 25 and she never became fluent. Ever.
In fact, it is my belief that if those she spoke Ukrainian with had not known Russian themselves, they would not have understood her at all times.

Perhaps your roommate was just too young to have learned either language from his family? My little sister was 4 when we moved to Canada. She barely speaks any Russian or Ukrainian

 

[richardus]

No. Only in certain parts of Andalusia do you get the hybrid ‘ustedes —is’ in the dialect. The correct forms are ‘vosotros —is’ and ‘ustedes —n’.

The true second-person plural (‘vosotros —is’) is lost in the colloquial speech of the entire New World. It can be found only in the highest styles there.

The true second-person singular is lost in some regions too.

Actually "Vosotros" has been completely replaced by "Ustedes". Some people try to use it to sound more "elegant", but the result is really funny. Even the "cultural elite" (I saw this expression in this forum ) use "Ustedes".


About how many languages are safe to study, I would say it depends on how you intend to learn them. I remember trying to learn French, Latin, Classical Greek, German and Korean at the same time, and my brain was overwhelmed! It could have been because I tried to learn them by myself (I do not like schools), so it was somewhat hard. What I did was choose one language and wait some months before starting the others. (I haven't started neither Greek nor German )

I think Akela is right, if you try to learn several languages from zero (at the same time), you may have problems. If you enrol on a course this may be different though.

 

[Nikolaos]

No. Only in certain parts of Andalusia do you get the hybrid ‘ustedes —is’ in the dialect. The correct forms are ‘vosotros —is’ and ‘ustedes —n’.

The true second-person plural (‘vosotros —is’) is lost in the colloquial speech of the entire New World. It can be found only in the highest styles there.

The true second-person singular is lost in some regions too.

Actually "Vosotros" has been completely replaced by "Ustedes". Some people try to use it to sound more "elegant", but the result is really funny. Even the "cultural elite" (I saw this expression in this forum ) use "Ustedes".

Is that ignoring the Spaniards?

Anyway, thanks again for your answers. I am working on Latin and Spanish currently. I occasionally slip up and use the word/grammatical structure of the wrong language, but I usually catch myself as I am doing so.

 

[richardus]

My Spanish text is based on European Spanish. Can anyone here tell me whether or not Latin American Spanish (particularly in Mexico) uses the second-person plural verb form? I know that ustedes is preferred to vosotros, but I don't know whether the second-person plural is acceptable when a pronoun is not expressed.

Actually in Spanish the subject pronouns are used just to give emphasis on the subject, and we omit them most of the time. You can say Son/Sois without the pronoun. And here we don't use the -is form of the verbs, just in some countries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voseo

Is that ignoring the Spaniards?

In Spain "Vosotros" is the preferred pronoun, but in Latin America it's "Ustedes".

 

[Reziac]

In Spain "Vosotros" is the preferred pronoun, but in Latin America it's "Ustedes".

I wonder to what degree that's regional? Aren't there 5 or 6 major dialects in Spain?

When I took Spanish in high school (1971-72, during that year Latin was dropped) our teacher was a stickler for Castilian Spanish (she didn't think much of Latin American Spanish), and we learned to use "ustedes". I've been told I still have a Castilian accent, for such little of it that I still remember. No recuerdo nada. :|

 

[Reziac]

Perhaps your roommate was just too young to have learned either language from his family? My little sister was 4 when we moved to Canada. She barely speaks any Russian or Ukrainian

As I recall, their mother tried to only speak English after coming to America, so the sons didn't learn much Russian or Ukranian.

From what I recall from watching my roommate's self-study sessions, I think you're right, the two languages are just close enough to be confusing!

 

[Imber Ranae]

In Spain "Vosotros" is the preferred pronoun, but in Latin America it's "Ustedes".

I wonder to what degree that's regional? Aren't there 5 or 6 major dialects in Spain?

When I took Spanish in high school (1971-72, during that year Latin was dropped) our teacher was a stickler for Castilian Spanish (she didn't think much of Latin American Spanish), and we learned to use "ustedes". I've been told I still have a Castilian accent, for such little of it that I still remember. No recuerdo nada. :|

Richardus can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the "ustedes -n" form is used in Castilian Spanish for "vosotros -is" in the same way that "usted -∅" is used for "tu -s", i.e. to mark a difference in degree of formality.

 

[Reziac]

Richardus can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the "ustedes -n" form is used in Castilian Spanish for "vosotros -is" in the same way that "usted -∅" is used for "tu -s", i.e. to mark a difference in degree of formality.

That sounds right <bangs on brain to revive it> ... I do remember being taught about formal vs informal. But we were always formal with our teacher!

Here in L.A. it's all "tu", almost never "usted". I guess no one here has any respect.

 

[JaimeB]

In Spain "Vosotros" is the preferred pronoun, but in Latin America it's "Ustedes".

I wonder to what degree that's regional? Aren't there 5 or 6 major dialects in Spain?

When I took Spanish in high school (1971-72, during that year Latin was dropped) our teacher was a stickler for Castilian Spanish (she didn't think much of Latin American Spanish), and we learned to use "ustedes". I've been told I still have a Castilian accent, for such little of it that I still remember. No recuerdo nada. :|

In Spain, "vosotros" is standard for the familiar plural throughout the country. "Ustedes" substitutes for it in all of Latin America, but one does hear "vosotros" there sometimes in sermons or very formal contexts (such as patriotic speeches: "Vosotros hijos de la patria..." and so on). When I was growing up (I spoke only Spanish as a small child), I only knew "vosotros" as a familiar plural; when I left home and started to have more and more dealings with Latin American Spanish-speakers, I had to get used to using "ustedes" instead.

I'm curious to know what the usage would be in the Canary Islands, where Spanish usage sometimes seems intermediate between Peninsular and American Spanish. Any canarios out there who can can elucidate?

Edit: I did find this on a Google search:

"Hi, I am Spanish, and yes, it's in Spain where you'll hear 'vosotros'. Even in Spain, for example, in Canary Islands and Andalucia they usually say 'ustedes' instead of 'vosotros'." [Emphasis added]

Notice the "usually." I've heard "vosotros" commonly in Andalucia when traveling there; I've never been in the Canaries, so that's still a mystery to me. Anybody out there who can tell us?