In Nomine patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti

bmart4484

New Member
So does this translate to

" IN the name of the father, the son, the holy spirit" ?

How do I say

"IN the name of the father, the son, AND the holy spirit"?


Also, how do I say:

" Please forgive me father"

and

"amen"

THank you so much, Htis is going to be a tattoo, so please try your best.

I also speak portuguese but it just doesnt translate well...

thank you so much for you prompt repsonse!!
 

QMF

Civis Illustris
You got the first one right.

Father, please forgive me would be "pater, sis ignosce mihi" in my opinion. There may be a specific usage of this in the Vulgate that would be better, so if you have a Bible verse in mind, mention it.

Amen is actually just amen. The word was stolen from Hebrew by both Greek and Latin and remained as it is.
 

deudeditus

Civis Illustris
in nomine patris et filii et spiritus sancti

means

in the name of the father and the son and the holy spirit..

et means and.

but when listing things like that, 'and' isn't really necessary, i don't think.

qqmf is right; though i don't remember seeing sis too often... don't take my word for it, though. :)
 

Cinefactus

Censor
Staff member
The Vulgate tends to use dimittere, eg Luke 23:34 Iesus autem dicebat Pater dimitte illis non enim sciunt quid faciunt

So I would try:
Pater dimitte me
for Father forgive me.
 

QMF

Civis Illustris
Deudetitus-since Latin doesn't actually have commas, I beg to differ. That's what my teacher told me. I can't seem to find the Vulgate manifestation of the quote, but my Greek book has:
εν τω ονοματι του πατρος και του υιου και του αγιου πνευματος. Αμην.


You can see there are two "kai"s in there, both of which are "and"s. It's not much support for the Latin debate, but it is some.

I realize this is off-topic, but this is a strange contradiction of the Greek that I have:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinitarian_formula

And thanks Cinefactus!
 

bmart4484

New Member
wow... thank you guys so much!! I appreciate it.
So let me get this straight, if it want to say:

"Father please forgive me.
in the name of the father, son and holy spirit, amen."

I say:

"Pater dimitte me. In nomine patris et filii et spiritus sancti. Amen." ??

or " pater, sis ignosce mihi. In nomine patris et filii et spiritus sancti. Amen." ??

Also, what is "vulgate"

Thank you guys so much again!! Latin is so beautiful, i am going to try and learn some more...
 

bmart4484

New Member
basically what are the differences between, "pater dimitte me" and " pater, sis ignosce mihi" ??????

also why is patris used in the former and then pater in the other? Is it a sign of respect versus an actual father?

sorry for all the questions, this stuff is just really interesting... and im tattooing it on me!!
 

QMF

Civis Illustris
"Pater dimitte me" and "pater sis ignosce mihi" are very similar, it's hard for us to try and explain their differences.

The Vulgate is the Bible as it was translated into Latin.

Patris is in the second because that is how Latin grammar does "of the father" whereas pater is simply "father." That's a bit of an oversimplification but that's the idea.
 

bmart4484

New Member
nice!!! I understand now. So between the two, from a more biblical perspective, which one is more correct? ...and what is the exact translation of each? ....and its not like portuguese where you would say "forgive me father", for example?

"pater dimette me" = father forgive me

"pater, sis ignosce mihi" = "father ? ? ? "

Thanks again!!
 

bmart4484

New Member
Mihi ignosce= ignore or excuse me?

SO I take it ..."pater dimette me" would be more proper in the context in your opinion?

Also,why do you use "mihi" and not "me" ? In portugese, minha is when you speak of your self, but not possessing something? same thing?

thanks again
 

QMF

Civis Illustris
Ignosce takes a dative object, dimitte here I think is ablative (not certain; Cinefactus, care to report)? That's just how the cases change.
 

Cinefactus

Censor
Staff member
AFAIK dimitte takes the accusative...

From the perspective of the vulgate bible, I would go with dimitte, which in this form alone occurs 47 times. I can't find ignosce in the vulgate.

The word order doesn't matter, however, this is the word order from Luke 23.
 

Andy

Civis Illustris
I would vouch for dimittere rather than ignoscere. Mihi ignosce is more like something a Roman would say if he bumped into another in the street (if he said anything at all). Or perhaps a more polite forgiving:

e.g. interim velim mihi ignoscas quod ad te scribo tam multa totiens (meanwhile, forgive my writing to you at such length and so often) - Cicero, Letters to Atticus

Dimittere pushes the meaning, because it may mean more 'forgo debts' than actually 'forgive', but the sense prevails. Seeing that this is a religious quote, sticking to the Vulgate seems like a good idea.
 

bmart4484

New Member
How do you guys know all of this? wow! Thank you so much!! I am going with the Vulgate for sure. SO the following is correct? Y/N? Capitalizations and punctuations included.
Also, dimitte or dimittere? The latter is the infinitive?


"Pater dimitte me. In Nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti. Amen"

I think this should be it!! Muito muito obrigado!! Muito brasiledo(a)!!
 

Cinefactus

Censor
Staff member
bmart4484 dixit:
"Pater dimitte me. In Nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti. Amen"
This is correct.
 

bmart4484

New Member
Thanks so much. YOu have been such an awesome help!! I really appreciate it greatly. Have a good one.

PS that ones going on my ribs ;)
 

deudeditus

Civis Illustris
qqmf - sorry for the late reply. i understand that there can be multiple 'et' (or kai :] ) but (i think it was in wheelock's, but i can't be sure bc that book was stolen) what about something like << mater panem uinum caesum malum emit >>?

are the et's necessary? idk, just asking
 

Ioannes

New Member
OK, I'm new but I have I question/correction:

If the "Pater noster" has:
"...et dimitte NOBIS debita nostra sicut et nos dimittimus DEBITORIBUS NOSTRIS." shouldn't the sentence go:
"Pater, [notice the comma because of the vocative] dimitte mihi. In Nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti. Amen"
like this one:
"Dimitte mihi, Deus, dimitte peccata mea, propter nomen sanctum tuum..."?

I think this shows that "dimittere" takes ac. for the thing we want to be forgiven - here: "debita nostra" (ac. pl.) and "peccata mea" (ac. pl.); and it takes d. to say who is asking the forgivness - here "nobis", "debitoribus nostris" (both d. pl.) and "mihi" (obviously d. sg.).

I am NOT claiming this as an expert but I think I made a good point which should be taken into consideration. Tattoo is not a joke! Neither is the Latin grammar.
 

Cinefactus

Censor
Staff member
Having looked through the Vulgate more closely I think you are right.

None of the usual dictionaries seem to be very helpful here, probably because this is a later meaning...

In the Vulgate however it seems that when dimitte means to forgive, it takes the dative, and when it means to send away it takes the accusative. I guess this stems from the original meaning, "send away sin for us", but the dative seems to stay, even when the object is not in the sentence.

Which would give:
Pater dimitte mihi. In Nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
 
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