ipse cum reliquis copiis elephantisque lentius subsequitur. suspicatus praemissis equitibus ipsum adesse Curionem Saburra copias equitum peditu

[SpeedPocok5]

ipse cum reliquis copiis elephantisque LX [2] lentius subsequitur. suspicatus praemissis equitibus ipsum adesse Curionem. Saburra copias equitum peditumque instruit atque his imperat, ut simulatione timoris paulatim cedant ac pedem referant.

He himself is followed leisurely with the rest of the troops, and about forty elephants, suspecting that Curio, (who had sent the cavalry?). Saburra drew up his horse troops and foot, ordering them to ---------?-------------?-------------------?----------------?.


I have had some difficulties with the translation of this text.

 

[cinefactus]

subsequitur is deponent
there is no about in elephantisque LX

if you ignore praemissis equitibus can you translate
suspicatus ipsum Curionem adesse
his imperat, ut
simulatione timoris (the manner in which they should do it)
paulatim (also the manner)
cedant (ut cedant)
ac pedem referant. (ut pedem referant—pedem referre means to retreat)
the last part is a tactic to lure the enemy in.

 

[SpeedPocok5]

subsequitur is deponent
there is no about in elephantisque LX

if you ignore praemissis equitibus can you translate
suspicatus ipsum Curionem adesse
his imperat, ut
simulatione timoris (the manner in which they should do it)
paulatim (also the manner)
cedant (ut cedant)
ac pedem referant. (ut pedem referant—pedem referre means to retreat)
the last part is a tactic to lure the enemy in.

He himself is followed leisurely with the rest of the troops, and about forty elephants, suspecting that Curio, (who had sent the cavalry?). Saburra drew up his horse troops and foot, ordering them to give ground upon the enemy's attack, and, through fear, to counterfeit a retreat.

 

[Bitmap]

forty elephants

LX = 60

 

[cinefactus]

subsequitur is deponent. Its meaning is active.
there is no about
suspectus is past tense
you haven't translated ipsum adesse Curionem
imperat is not a participle
it is praemissis, not missis
simulatione goes with timoris, not with pedem referant

 

[john abshire]

subsequitur is deponent. Its meaning is active.
there is no about
suspectus is past tense
you haven't translated ipsum adesse Curionem
imperat is not a participle
it is praemissis, not missis
simulatione goes with timoris, not with pedem referant

ipse cum reliquis copiis elephantisque LX [2] lentius subsequitur. suspicatus praemissis equitibus ipsum adesse Curionem. Saburra copias equitum peditumque instruit atque his imperat, ut simulatione timoris paulatim cedant ac pedem referant.

He himself, followed leisurely with the remaining troops and sixty elephants, having suspected Curio himself sent the calvary in advance. Saburra drew up his forces, calvary, and foot soldiers, and ordered these to gradually withdraw with the simulation of fear, and return.
??

 

[cinefactus]

He himself, followed leisurely with the remaining troops and sixty elephants, having suspected Curio himself sent the calvary in advance. Saburra drew up his forces, calvary, and foot soldiers, and ordered these to gradually withdraw with the simulation of fear, and return.
??

it is having suspected Curionem ipsum adesse
pedem referant means to retreat.
They are to pretend to panic and to gradually start to fall back

 

[john abshire]

it is having suspected Curionem ipsum adesse
pedem referant means to retreat.
They are to pretend to panic and to gradually start to fall back

I’m having trouble with this,
Suspicatus praemissis equitibus ipsum adesse curionem.
Having suspected curio himself to be present with the Calvary having been sent in advance. ??

 

[john abshire]

it is having suspected Curionem ipsum adesse
pedem referant means to retreat.
They are to pretend to panic and to gradually start to fall back

Ut simulatione timoris paulatim cedant ac pedem referant.
In order to gradually withdraw and retreat with simulation of fear/pretending to panic?

 

[cinefactus]

I’m having trouble with this,
Suspicatus praemissis equitibus ipsum adesse curionem.
Having suspected curio himself to be present with the Calvary having been sent in advance. ??

having suspected that, Curio, having sent his cavalry in advance, was himself present.

 

[Bitmap]

having suspected that, Curio, having sent his cavalry in advance, was himself present.

With that comma before "that", it looks like you make Curionem the subject of suspicatus.

 

[john abshire]

having suspected that, Curio, having sent his cavalry in advance, was himself present.

.........suspicatus praemissis equitibus ipsum adesse curionem........
I think the following is correct;
“.......Having suspected curio himself to be present, with the Calvary having been sent in advance......”

It helps me to put a pronoun in front of this phrase, to provide the “target” (or antecedent?) for suspicatus. (Ipse is the target in the original sentence.)
Also re-grouping the words;

(ipse) suspicatus ipsum adesse curionem equitibus praemissis.
........ he (himself), having suspected curio himself to be present, with the Calvary having been sent in advance,.........
- - Is it permissible to interject a verb and change “he/himself having suspected” to “he suspected”?, in this example, and others like it? If the meaning is correct?
.....(Ipse) suspicatus curionem ipsum......
....He, having suspected curio himself.....
.....He suspected curio himself.......?

Also;
Does adesse (always) mean “to be present”?, and abesse= “To be absent”?
(I could not think of what else these could mean, but these meanings are passive, and adeo and abeo are not passive verbs. I suspect these are “being” verbs and are weird in this respect, but is there a name for this phenomenon?

 

[Bitmap]

It helps me to put a pronoun in front of this phrase, to provide the “target” (or antecedent?) for suspicatus. (Ipse is the target in the original sentence.)
Also re-grouping the words;

ipse refers to somebody else (to Iuba). The subject of that sentence and the noun suspicatus refer to is Saburra.

- - Is it permissible to interject a verb and change “he/himself having suspected” to “he suspected”?, in this example, and others like it? If the meaning is correct?

Yes, you can dissolve participles paratactically:
Saburra suspected that, because the cavalry had been sent ahead, Curio himself was present and he set up his troops of knights and foot soldiers and ordered them to gradually withdraw and retreat under the pretence of fear.

(I translated it in the past tense. Note that the Latin is actually present tense, but you can take it as historic present)

Also;
Does adesse (always) mean “to be present”?, and abesse= “To be absent”?

They can have that meaning. adesse can also have other meanings.

 

[john abshire]

ipse refers to somebody else (to Iuba). The subject of that sentence and the noun suspicatus refer to is Saburra.



Yes, you can dissolve participles paratactically:
Saburra suspected that, because the cavalry had been sent ahead, Curio himself was present and he set up his troops of knights and foot soldiers and ordered them to gradually withdraw and retreat under the pretence of fear.

(I translated it in the past tense. Note that the Latin is actually present tense, but you can take it as historic present)



They can have that meaning. adesse can also have other meanings.

Suspicatus is an adjective, correct?
(I am hoping it is), the ppp of suspicor= having suspected, vs having been suspected, because it is a deponent verb.?

Simulatione timoris = simulation of fear, or/ pretending to panic?
Did you translate simulatione timoris as “pretending to panic” from the definitions of each Latin word, or do you figure it is just a less literal translation? And either translation is correct?

 

[Bitmap]

Suspicatus is an adjective, correct?

It is a past participle.

(I am hoping it is), the ppp of suspicor= having suspected, vs having been suspected, because it is a deponent verb.?

Yes. Haven't you asked that before, already?

Simulatione timoris = simulation of fear, or/ pretending to panic?

Yes, as Cinefactus has already pointed out.

Did you translate simulatione timoris as “pretending to panic” from the definitions of each Latin word, or do you figure it is just a less literal translation? And either translation is correct?

I didn't translate it like that.

 

[Pacifica]

these meanings are passive

No, they aren't. A verb is passive when its subject undergoes an action done by someone or something else*, as in "The conspirators killed Caesar" ---> "Caesar was killed by the conspirators": the second sentence here is passive. I think your confusion comes from the fact that the passive is formed with forms of "to be" plus a participle. You must have extrapolated from this that any clause with a form of "to be" is passive. It isn't. The verb "to be" followed by an adjective, noun, or the like describing someone or something is not a passive construction.

*Well, that's the basic definition, anyway. Now there are things like the passive in middle sense but it's not what we've got here either.

 

[Pacifica]

Simulatione timoris = simulation of fear, or/ pretending to panic?
Did you translate simulatione timoris as “pretending to panic” from the definitions of each Latin word, or do you figure it is just a less literal translation? And either translation is correct?

"Pretending to panic" is obviously not a word-for-word translation of simulatione timoris, since simulatione isn't a participle and timoris isn't an infinitive. Simulatione timoris translates literally to "with a simulation of fear", but a rewording like "pretending to panic" might sound better.

 

[john abshire]

No, they aren't. A verb is passive when its subject undergoes an action done by someone or something else*, as in "The conspirators killed Caesar" ---> "Caesar was killed by the conspirators": the second sentence here is passive. I think your confusion comes from the fact that the passive is formed with forms of "to be" plus a participle. You must have extrapolated from this that any clause with a form of "to be" is passive. It isn't. The verb "to be" followed by an adjective, noun, or the like describing someone or something is not a passive construction.

*Well, that's the basic definition, anyway. Now there are things like the passive in middle sense but it's not what we've got here either.

You are right, I am confusing “to be” with passive.
Thank you

 

[john abshire]

"Pretending to panic" is obviously not a word-for-word translation of simulatione timoris, since simulatione isn't a participle and timoris isn't an infinitive. Simulatione timoris translates literally to "with a simulation of fear", but a rewording like "pretending to panic" might sound better.

Simulatione timoris = with a simulation of fear (lit)
Thank you.

 

[john abshire]

"Pretending to panic" is obviously not a word-for-word translation of simulatione timoris, since simulatione isn't a participle and timoris isn't an infinitive. Simulatione timoris translates literally to "with a simulation of fear", but a rewording like "pretending to panic" might sound better.

Simulatione timorus can also translate as "pretending to panic",
thanks, that was the initial question.