This is a bit of a continuation of a discussion about writing contemporay Latin started in the thread about the Latin for tuba.
The handling of proper names - Tony Blair, Jean-Luc Picard etc - is a major concern when writng new Latin.
I was just wondering what the consensus here was about how to handle proper names.
Cato wisely believes that we need to decline them. I'm happy with this. In English we add "s" to words to indicative possession : Tom's, Harry's etc. This is natural in English and in Latin it would be natural to add endings to indicate case. Besides, if we don't decline the names, we'd have to use prepositions and Latin prepositions are not meant for the job. For example "de" does not mean "of" so we can't say "de Tony Blair". We're using Latin, not a Romance language. (I note though that the Latin Wikipedia leaves names undeclined when a preposition is used - eg ad Tony Blair not ad Tonium Blairem - what do the people here think of this practice?).
So, given we're going to decline or die trying, what's the best strategy?
Firstly, the nominative. I presume the best plan here is to use the actual name unless a Latin equivalent is readily available. For example keep Tony Blair as Tony Blair but perhaps Kylie could become Kylia.
Then the other cases. How do I write "Britain, land of Thomas Paine and Tony Blair"?
Britannia, patria Thomasii Painei et Tonii Blairis
(I dont want to say Anthonius Blair - he actually used to call himself Anthony Blair but in a typically slippery move restyled himself as Tony Blair. I want to keep the "Tony")
Does that look right?
Peter Needham in his translation of Harry Potter takes various different approaches.
Some names are Latinised - Ron Weasley becomes Ronaldus Vislius.
Most names are kept but they are usually only declined when they stand alone
For example:
Dumbledoris = genitive of Dumbledore = "of Dumbledore"
but
Professoris Dumbledore = "of Professor Dumbledore"
Wikipedia also does this, for example:
Tragoedia Romana Coriolanus ultima Gulielmi Shakespeare tragoedia scripta ca. 1607-1608 editaque 1623 (F1) est.
Guilielmus is declined, Shakespeare is not.
What do people think of this? Is it a good strategy to leave a name undeclined if there's another qualifying word that is declined next to it (or a preposition)?
I'm sure we can all bumble through using our wits, but I thought I'd like to hear what other people think.
(Actually, "Britannia patria Thomasii Paine et Tonii Blair" looks like a good way to do it to me).
The handling of proper names - Tony Blair, Jean-Luc Picard etc - is a major concern when writng new Latin.
I was just wondering what the consensus here was about how to handle proper names.
Cato wisely believes that we need to decline them. I'm happy with this. In English we add "s" to words to indicative possession : Tom's, Harry's etc. This is natural in English and in Latin it would be natural to add endings to indicate case. Besides, if we don't decline the names, we'd have to use prepositions and Latin prepositions are not meant for the job. For example "de" does not mean "of" so we can't say "de Tony Blair". We're using Latin, not a Romance language. (I note though that the Latin Wikipedia leaves names undeclined when a preposition is used - eg ad Tony Blair not ad Tonium Blairem - what do the people here think of this practice?).
So, given we're going to decline or die trying, what's the best strategy?
Firstly, the nominative. I presume the best plan here is to use the actual name unless a Latin equivalent is readily available. For example keep Tony Blair as Tony Blair but perhaps Kylie could become Kylia.
Then the other cases. How do I write "Britain, land of Thomas Paine and Tony Blair"?
Britannia, patria Thomasii Painei et Tonii Blairis
(I dont want to say Anthonius Blair - he actually used to call himself Anthony Blair but in a typically slippery move restyled himself as Tony Blair. I want to keep the "Tony")
Does that look right?
Peter Needham in his translation of Harry Potter takes various different approaches.
Some names are Latinised - Ron Weasley becomes Ronaldus Vislius.
Most names are kept but they are usually only declined when they stand alone
For example:
Dumbledoris = genitive of Dumbledore = "of Dumbledore"
but
Professoris Dumbledore = "of Professor Dumbledore"
Wikipedia also does this, for example:
Tragoedia Romana Coriolanus ultima Gulielmi Shakespeare tragoedia scripta ca. 1607-1608 editaque 1623 (F1) est.
Guilielmus is declined, Shakespeare is not.
What do people think of this? Is it a good strategy to leave a name undeclined if there's another qualifying word that is declined next to it (or a preposition)?
I'm sure we can all bumble through using our wits, but I thought I'd like to hear what other people think.
(Actually, "Britannia patria Thomasii Paine et Tonii Blair" looks like a good way to do it to me).