Learning latin in school

Tiro

New Member
CHAMÆLEO dixit:
‘Hic, hæc, hoc’ is ‘this, near me’
‘Iste, ista, istud’ is ‘that, near you’
‘Ille, illa, illud’ is ‘that, over there, not near us’

They are called demonstratives. The masculine and feminine forms often refer to people (e.g. ‘hic’ can be ‘he’, ‘this man’).

‘Is, ea, id’ is sometimes considered a demonstrative, and sometimes given other names such as ‘anaphoric’. It doesn't place things in space as explicitly as the demonstratives. Translate it as ‘this’ or ‘that’ according to context. It's also used as the closest thing that Latin has to ‘the’ and ‘he, she, it’.
Thank you again, now it makes much more sense : )
What's "cooler" using iis or eis ? when declining is,ea,id? ^^
 

paruos

Civis Illustris
Only pay attention to this:

Give prefference to the verb conjugation rather than to using pronouns as subjects.
Latin personal pronouns had a specific use, different from most modern languages (all that I know).

For instance,

per vias ambulo
per vias ambulas
per vias ambulat
= I, you, he/she/it stroll(s) at the streets

If you say

ego per vias ambulo

it means = I stroll at the streets myself
or
it is I (and nobody else) who strolls at the streets

(Same with is ...)

per vias ambulat
= he strolls at the streets

is per vias ambulat
= it is he who strolls at the streets
 

Chamaeleo

New Member
Quasus dixit:
I don't think I quite understand it. Latin words are often polysemantic, but does it matter if you are not translating from Latin? You just use the same word for "to insist" and "to stand on" without taking into account the meanings that you don't need.
That's fine if the context makes it clear, but the context doesn't always make it clear. Sometimes you want to unambiguously say ‘invade’ without the reader/listener being able to misinterpret it as ‘get in’. All languages have ambiguities, but the task of the communicator is easier if the language has a broad vocabulary like English, rather than the restricted vocabulary of Latin.
 

Imber Ranae

Ranunculus Iracundus
Yes, Latin is a very context dependent language. Most ancient languages were, including Greek (though to a lesser extent than Latin).

I think facere incursionem is a relatively unambiguous Latin expression for the English verb "invade". Granted, it can also simply imply a raid into enemy lines.
 

Quasus

Civis Illustris
Tiro dixit:
What's "cooler" using iis or eis ? when declining is,ea,id? ^^
Adler's Grammar states that iīs is cooler. :)
Besides, you can treat these pronound as follows: hic the one near me, iste the one near you, ille the one we're talking about, is just mentioned. BTW, sometimes ille may mean that excellent and iste, that awful.
 

Tiro

New Member
Quasus dixit:
Adler's Grammar states that iīs is cooler. :)
Besides, you can treat these pronound as follows: hic the one near me, iste the one near you, ille the one we're talking about, is just mentioned. BTW, sometimes ille may mean that excellent and iste, that awful.
Oh thank you didn't know that ille can mean excellent and iste awful. :)
Btw got new questions ^^

bis bina sunt quattuor - i know that bis belongs to the adverbia numeralia but what about bina?
And if I have for example viginti unus, do I decline unus or not ?
 

Quasus

Civis Illustris
Tiro dixit:
bis bina sunt quattuor - i know that bis belongs to the adverbia numeralia but what about bina?
Bīna is Nom. neut. of bīnī, bīnae, bīna two by two. It's one of so-called distributive numerals. Do you have an idea of them? You can read about them here: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/pt ... ad%3D%2374
Wenn Du dich in Distributivzahlwörtern nicht auskennst, schreibe mal; ich werde Erläurungen sowie Beispiele anführen.
Tiro dixit:
bis bina sunt quattuor - i know that bis belongs to the adverbia numeralia but what about bina?
And if I have for example viginti unus, do I decline unus or not ?
 

Tiro

New Member
Quasus dixit:
Bīna is Nom. neut. of bīnī, bīnae, bīna two by two. It's one of so-called distributive numerals. Do you have an idea of them? You can read about them here: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/pt ... ad%3D%2374
Wenn Du dich in Distributivzahlwörtern nicht auskennst, schreibe mal; ich werde Erläurungen sowie Beispiele anführen.
I didn't know that bini can be declined (in my book only the masculine form was given) and I wasn't smart enough think of it as a plural adjective.
Danke für die Hilfe =)

And btw do I decline unus in 21 (viginti unus)? I guess not or?
 

Chamaeleo

New Member
I too have grave doubts about how to use numbers in Latin. Texts tend to just use Roman numerals, which is not educational, because I already know them!
 

Quasus

Civis Illustris
Tiro dixit:
And btw do I decline unus in 21 (viginti unus)? I guess not or?
Sorry, forgot to answer it.

Vīgintī is not declined, and ūnus is declined in the normal way.

NB: Distributives are declined according to the I-II declensions, but they have gen. pl. in -um and not in -ōrum/-ārum. E.g.: puerī dēnum annōrum ten years old children.
 

scrabulista

Consul
Staff member
Quasus dixit:
Tiro dixit:
What's "cooler" using iis or eis ? when declining is,ea,id? ^^
Adler's Grammar states that iīs is cooler. :)
Besides, you can treat these pronound as follows: hic the one near me, iste the one near you, ille the one we're talking about, is just mentioned. BTW, sometimes ille may mean that excellent and iste, that awful.
Does Adler actually say "cooler?"

Ille can carry contempt as well.

et nunc ille Paris cum semiviro comitatu, (Aeneid, IV, l. 215)
"And now -- that Paris -- with his semivirile company,.."

(said by King Iarbus of Aeneas. He is likening Aeneas to Paris -- Iarbus thinks Aeneas is trying to steal his girl Dido.)
 

Tiro

New Member
Quasus dixit:
Tiro dixit:
And btw do I decline unus in 21 (viginti unus)? I guess not or?
Sorry, forgot to answer it.

Vīgintī is not declined, and ūnus is declined in the normal way.

NB: Distributives are declined according to the I-II declensions, but they have gen. pl. in -um and not in -ōrum/-ārum. E.g.: puerī dēnum annōrum ten years old children.
Well 21 dogs would be viginti uni canes? Having unus in plural sounds funny xD, and there is my next question, can unus be in plural? Seriously, the numbers in latin are way too complicated cardinalia,ordinaria,distributiva,adverbia numeralia all are different alle have to be learnt by heart separately.... :(
 

Chamaeleo

New Member
Personally, I'm not even interested in the distributives etc. I'd be happy even with a decent guide to forming and using all the cardinal numbers. First things first!
 

Imber Ranae

Ranunculus Iracundus
Tiro dixit:
Well 21 dogs would be viginti uni canes? Having unus in plural sounds funny xD, and there is my next question, can unus be in plural? Seriously, the numbers in latin are way too complicated cardinalia,ordinaria,distributiva,adverbia numeralia all are different alle have to be learnt by heart separately.... :(
No, you must keep unus singular, but it declines according to gender and case. So it would be viginti unus canes if nominative and viginti unum canes if accusative. (Unless they're all bitches, in which case you'd use the feminine forms una and unam, respectively.)
 

Quasus

Civis Illustris
Tiro dixit:
...there is my next question, can unus be in plural?
Since I've opened Adler, here's the quote:
Adler dixit:
The plural ūnī, ūnae, ūnă, can only be used, a) when joined with substantives that are pluralĭa tantum, i. e. used in the plural only; as ūnae scōpae, one broom; ūnae litterae, one letter; ūnă castra, one camp; in ūnīs aedibus, in one house; b) when it assumes the sense of "only," "alone," "one and the same," "like," &c.; as tres uni passus, only three steps; unis moribus, with one and the same kind of manners, &c.
Tiro dixit:
Seriously, the numbers in latin are way too complicated cardinalia,ordinaria,distributiva,adverbia numeralia all are different alle have to be learnt by heart separately.... :(
+1 And not only numbers. :D But it's a part of the Latin charm, isn't it?
 

Quasus

Civis Illustris
CHAMÆLEO dixit:
I'd be happy even with a decent guide to forming and using all the cardinal numbers.
And what is wrong with the cardinal numbers? (Taking into account that you are not French.)
 

Chamaeleo

New Member
Quasus dixit:
And what is wrong with the cardinal numbers? (Taking into account that you are not French.)
I can't confidently count past ten! The topic just isn't covered in any book I've seen.
 
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