Manuscript dedication
- Thread starter sbartlet
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After some thought, I'm concerned about "subsidium."
Julius has been called the Warrior Pope and he was, at the time of this writing, in the middle of a war over the Papal States. In this context, I though "defender" captured the feeling better. Now I am beginning to wonder if a more traditional direct translation should be used... something like "supporter" .... but it just doesn't have the same feeling.
Thoughts?
Julius has been called the Warrior Pope and he was, at the time of this writing, in the middle of a war over the Papal States. In this context, I though "defender" captured the feeling better. Now I am beginning to wonder if a more traditional direct translation should be used... something like "supporter" .... but it just doesn't have the same feeling.
Thoughts?
Wow, I'm sorry if I have offended in some way. I can admit that I am new to the Latin translation process and find it daunting. I can also assure you that I have always done my own research. That is why I know that subsidium can be used in two senses, in the general sense of help, aid, support, etc., or in a more militant sense of reserve/auxiliary forces.
I also know that translation is not about the literal, but general meaning and that Renaissance humanists often played with the classical lexicon to add layers of meaning. I realize that the general literal translation of subsidium does not work for a dedication to the pope, which is why I went with defender even though defensor is not used.
Which is why, as part of MY research, I thought I would turn to those who are far more expert in these matters than I to ask their opinions and present the context of the quote to achieve the correct meaning.
Matthaeus, I wish to thank you for helping with the abbreviation question. That cleared up everything. I though an academic discussion of the intended meaning of subsidium would be welcome here. I am sorry if this or my admitted neophyte Latin has offended. I shall not bother you, again.
I also know that translation is not about the literal, but general meaning and that Renaissance humanists often played with the classical lexicon to add layers of meaning. I realize that the general literal translation of subsidium does not work for a dedication to the pope, which is why I went with defender even though defensor is not used.
Which is why, as part of MY research, I thought I would turn to those who are far more expert in these matters than I to ask their opinions and present the context of the quote to achieve the correct meaning.
Matthaeus, I wish to thank you for helping with the abbreviation question. That cleared up everything. I though an academic discussion of the intended meaning of subsidium would be welcome here. I am sorry if this or my admitted neophyte Latin has offended. I shall not bother you, again.
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It's not really new. I can remember reading subsidium rei publicae in one of Cicero's speeches. He was comparing 2 consuls, but I can't really remember the context anymore. I did a quick search to find the passage thoughsbartlet dixit:
Cic. Sest. 20:
erat hic omnium sermo: 'est tamen rei publicae magnum firmumque subsidium; habeo quem opponam labi illi atque caeno; vultu me dius fidius conlegae sui libidinem levitatemque franget; habebit senatus in hunc annum quem sequatur; non deerit auctor et dux bonis.'
C.D.Yonge (1891) translates it as "support" here
This was the common conversation of every one: “He is, however, a great and firm support to the republic; we have some one to oppose to that pollution, to that mud; I declare solemnly by his mere look he will check the licentiousness and levity of his colleague; the senate will have some one this year whom it can follow; good men will not be in want of an adviser and a leader this year.”
I left the rest of the sentence in because it kind of explains what the subsidium consists of and what is meant by it - a morally upright leader, somebody who defends moral virtues.
You can also translate it as support in your translation if you want it to comply with the choices given by the dictionary entry, but "defender/protector/guardian" is certainly something subsidium can pertain to in this context.
No offence taken. Some things just seem easy enough for anyone to look up themselves. There’s no harm in asking though. Matthæus might inadvertently have sounded a bit rude, but nobody’s angry here.sbartlet dixit:
Refer to Bitmap above for further details on the term.
I'm glad everyone is cool on all sides.
Thanks for the quote and comments, Civis Illustris. I was concerned "support" did not have enough gravitas for a dedication to the Pope. After seeing the Cicero quote, I could see how it could still carry enough weight.
Thanks everyone for all your help!
Thanks for the quote and comments, Civis Illustris. I was concerned "support" did not have enough gravitas for a dedication to the Pope. After seeing the Cicero quote, I could see how it could still carry enough weight.
Thanks everyone for all your help!