Martini Cromeri ex quinto libro de origine & rebus gestis Polonorum nonnulli loci dubii

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
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Subdiderunt colla iugo maiores nostri, suis magis quam Polonorum armis victi, cum civili & parricidiali bello mutuo se aflixissent, & alii contra alios Polonorum opem, suo iuxta ac adversariorum malo, implorassent: hostes experti, quos in auxilium advocarant.

Surely this is either dative singular of expers, but what does it modify, bello or malo? or it's plural of expertus.
So it would rather be "experienced enemies"?
It's the plural of expertus. "They experienced as enemies those whom they had called to their aid"—i.e. the people they had called to for help eventually turned out to be their enemies.
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Illi nobis servierint, nobisque militaverint, quae nos dudum ipsis praestitimus, si vos volueritis.

Sorry, question regarding the subjunctive mood again: is this optative here?
Like, "if you guys want, let them serve us and make war for us, things we've proved to themselves a while ago"?
Or it could be "let them have served us"; i.e. "let's suppose that they did serve us". Could you post more of the context?

At first sight I'd take quae nos dudum in ipsis praestitimus as "things which we did for them a while ago", but maybe the context will make me change my mind.
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Ad eamque rem operam suam pollicetur: cetera quietos esse iubet.

Accusative of respect?
Yes.
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Forte fortuna optatam eis occasionem obtulit.
Isn't that a little tautological?
I guess so.

Forte fortuna, with fortuna in the ablative, is a set expression, as it happens. But here fortuna seems to be nominative.
 

Matthaeus

Vemortuicida strenuus
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Sventopelcus de domestico periculo certior factus, aegre impetrato ab Imperatore fremente, et in Polonis iam tunc minante, commeatu, raptim cum suis in Boemiam revertit: cumque Polonos tunc ulcisci proclive ipsi non esset, in suos iram convertit, quasi eorum conniventia et prodictione Boemia vastata esset.

...and since he wasn't inclined/disposed then to have revenge on the Poles..."
can that be used substantively?
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
More like "since it wasn't easy for him". Proclive doesn't look substantivized.
 

Matthaeus

Vemortuicida strenuus
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Itaque omnibus rebus posthabitis Boleslaus, a Boemica expeditione maximis itineribus recta in Pomeraniam cum paucis expeditis militibus contendit, reliquo exercitu dimisso, ut praeda Boemica exoneratus, ad Pomeranorum fines sibi occurreret.

Is this reflexive pronoun redundant?
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
View attachment 15807

Itaque omnibus rebus posthabitis Boleslaus, a Boemica expeditione maximis itineribus recta in Pomeraniam cum paucis expeditis militibus contendit, reliquo exercitu dimisso, ut praeda Boemica exoneratus, ad Pomeranorum fines sibi occurreret.

Is this reflexive pronoun redundant?
No. It seems he meant for the rest of the army to join him after being relieved of the booty.
 

Matthaeus

Vemortuicida strenuus
So I guess reliquus exercitus is really the subject of occurreret.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Yes (it wasn't immediately obvious to me, either).
 

Matthaeus

Vemortuicida strenuus
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Ac nostri quidem conquisiti et sepulti sunt. Germani vero insepulti, canibus et volveribus esca iacuere.
Unable to find this word anywhere...

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...pudebatque et pigebat sui ipsius, quod tantae illius cladis culpam in se agnoscebat, quippe qui credulus nimium et incircumspectus fuisset.

same thing here...
 

Matthaeus

Vemortuicida strenuus
It's the plural of expertus. "They experienced as enemies those whom they had called to their aid"—i.e. the people they had called to for help eventually turned out to be their enemies.

Or it could be "let them have served us"; i.e. "let's suppose that they did serve us". Could you post more of the context?
Sure thing! It's actually a long exhortatory speech on the part of a Russian prince Iaropelcus tired of serving his Polish "masters". I don't feel like transcribing the whole thing, but you can read this pretty fluently anyway. ;)

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Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Ac nostri quidem conquisiti et sepulti sunt. Germani vero insepulti, canibus et volveribus esca iacuere.
Unable to find this word anywhere...
Volucribus.
...pudebatque et pigebat sui ipsius, quod tantae illius cladis culpam in se agnoscebat, quippe qui credulus nimium et incircumspectus fuisset.
That is correctly transcribed. It's just a negated circumspectus—so "unwary", "imprudent", "rash" or the like.
Sure thing! It's actually a long exhortatory speech on the part of a Russian prince Iaropelcus tired of serving his Polish "masters". I don't feel like transcribing the whole thing, but you can read this pretty fluently anyway. ;)

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Thanks. It seems to be all future perfect (you could render it as simple future in English).

And the context confirms my interpretation of the quae clause.
 

Matthaeus

Vemortuicida strenuus
Gratias. His quidem dictis explicit liber quintus.
 
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