Meaning of passive verbs + sum

Hermes Trismegistus

Civis

  • Civis

Location:
Brasilia
How to translate these verb forms in English?

Pulsatus sum..
Pulsatus eram..
Pulsatus ero..

Osculata est..
Osculata erat..
Osculata erit..
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
Pulsatus sum = I was beaten OR I have been beaten
Pulsatus eram = I had been beaten
Pulsatus ero = I will have been beaten

Osculata est = she kissed OR she has kissed
Osculata erat = she had kissed
Osculata erit = she will have kissed

Note that the osculata forms translate as active because osculor is a deponent verb (deponent verb = verb with passive forms but active meaning).
 

Hermes Trismegistus

Civis

  • Civis

Location:
Brasilia
So, scriptum est, is it translated more properly as It's written or It was written?

Pulsatus sum = I was beaten OR I have been beaten
Pulsatus eram = I had been beaten
Pulsatus ero = I will have been beaten

Osculata est = she kissed OR she has kissed
Osculata erat = she had kissed
Osculata erit = she will have kissed

Note that the osculata forms translate as active because osculor is a deponent verb (deponent verb = verb with passive forms but active meaning).
But how to translate the phrase She was kissed?
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
So, scriptum est, is it translated more properly as It's written or It was written?
It depends on context. In all cases, it means that the action of writing was completed in the past, so it can't mean "it's written" as in "it's being written (= someone is writing it)" or "it's habitually written (= people write it)". These two meanings would be expressed with the present passive, scribitur. However, it can mean "it's written" in the sense of being in a written state; when the action of writing was completed in the past but the "written" result remains so that you can say, for example, that such and such story "is written" in such and such book.
But how to translate the phrase She was kissed?
You could use another verb meaning "kiss" and say basiata est, though this verb is mostly poetic; or you could change the construction to something like quidam illam osculatus est, "Someone kissed her", or osculum illi datum est, "She was given a kiss" or more literally "A kiss was given to her".
 

Spinosus

New Member

Pulsatus sum = I was beaten OR I have been beaten
Pulsatus eram = I had been beaten
Pulsatus ero = I will have been beaten

Osculata est = she kissed OR she has kissed
Osculata erat = she had kissed
Osculata erit = she will have kissed

Note that the osculata forms translate as active because osculor is a deponent verb (deponent verb = verb with passive forms but active meaning).

Pacifica has said everything about Classical usage, and those preparing for school or college exams should perhaps not read on. However, in the comparatively unexplored Medieval Latin, alternatives evolve. The problem is that sum, es, est etc. suggest a present tense. It is the past participle (pulsatus, osculatus) which gives the force of the past. Moreover the present, future simple and imperfect tenses in the passive can be daunting and the moods confusible. So the following sequence evolves:
PRESENT pulsatus sum
FUTURE PERFECT pulsatus ero
IMPERFECT pulsatus eram
PERFECT pulsatus fui
FUTURE PERFECT pulsatus fuero
PLUPERFECT pulsatus fueram.
Of course these are not used by every writer nor consistently by individuals.

In passing I should mention that the absence of a continuous preset tense (scribo in Classical Latin means both 'I write' and 'I am writing' is compensated in Medieval Latin by scribens sum etc. using a present participle.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
'I am writing' is compensated in Medieval Latin by scribens sum etc. using a present participle.
I haven't read all medieval Latin that exists and so I can't affirm that never happens, but if it does happen, it's a rare rather than regular thing (if it were regular, I would have come across it).
 

Spinosus

New Member

I haven't read all medieval Latin that exists and so I can't affirm that never happens, but if it does happen, it's a rare rather than regular thing (if it were regular, I would have come across it).

Thank you Pacifica. Well, it and its friends (amans sum) do exist and, as you know, Medieval Latin is such a vast corpus, much of it still in manuscript, that it is difficult to talk about rarity and normality. I notice that many people are drawn into Medieval Latin through their interest in local and family history, and I feel that the odd signpost (or is it warning?) will help. Not for the writers of beautiful Latinate prose though!
 

Spinosus

New Member

Thank you, Pacifica, and its a fair question. This may be a bit 'heavy' for the present forum, but these periphrastic forms are also evidenced, though very rarely, in Classical Latin. On this see:
Roland Hoffmann
Lateinische Verbalperiphrasen vom Typ «amans sum» und »amatus fui»
Valenz und Grammatikalisierung (Primäres Textkorpus: Ovid)
Series:
Berlin, Bern, New York, Paris, Wien, 1997. XVI, 465 S., 8 Graf.
For some good medieval examples, I am afraid that I am away from my library and papers (I am in France and they are in England), but I promise something at the end of the month.
 
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