Meaning of the term "concieved root (form)"

[Michael Zwingli]

Hi, all.
What do the terms "concieved root" and "concieved root form" mean as apply to Latin? I have the idea that they mean roughly the same as "stem", which is a grammatical term, as opposed to "root", which seems, rather, an etymological term. Am I on the right track with this?

 

[scrabulista]

Hmm....do you have a reference (a link to a book or article)?

The only thing that comes to mind is something like:

conceive (v.)
late 13c., conceiven, "take (seed) into the womb, become pregnant," from stem of Old French conceveir (Modern French concevoir), from Latin concipere (past participle conceptus) "to take in and hold; become pregnant" (source also of Spanish concebir, Portuguese concebre, Italian concepere), from con-, here probably an intensive prefix (see con-), + combining form of capere "to take," from PIE root *kap- "to grasp."
(from etymonline.com)

The PIE (Proto-Indo-European) root *kap- is a conjecture. Scholars conceived this word as the ultimate root of conceive (for example).

 

[Michael Zwingli]

Hmm....do you have a reference (a link to a book or article)?

The only thing that comes to mind is something like:

conceive (v.)
late 13c., conceiven, "take (seed) into the womb, become pregnant," from stem of Old French conceveir (Modern French concevoir), from Latin concipere (past participle conceptus) "to take in and hold; become pregnant" (source also of Spanish concebir, Portuguese concebre, Italian concepere), from con-, here probably an intensive prefix (see con-), + combining form of capere "to take," from PIE root *kap- "to grasp."
(from etymonline.com)

The PIE (Proto-Indo-European) root *kap- is a conjecture. Scholars conceived this word as the ultimate root of conceive (for example).

I think, rather, by "concieved", is meant "a conception, an idea, having been made thusly (of this as a root form)". I guess my question pertains to what "root form" might mean in grammar. I recently was introduced to the term on a Wiktionary page, which I will have to search for to relay (can't do it now, as currently working involved in installing a new motor n an old jeep).

 

[Quasus]

Context?

 

[Michael Zwingli]

Hmm....do you have a reference...?

Context?

Okay, we have the motor mounted and mated to the tranny, so...break time.
I just looked for it, and you will find this wording on English language Wiktionary's "-es" page, under Etymology 1of the Latin section. Thanks, guys.

 

[Quasus]

No idea.

 

[Michael Zwingli]

No idea.

Awwww...maybe one of the more linguistically oriented guys like Rusty will have some idea.

 

[scrabulista]

used to form a third-declension feminine abstract noun designating the result of an action from a verb root or conceived root form
caedō (“I kill or cut”) → caedēs (“slaughter”)
sedeō (“I sit”) → sēdēs (“seat”)

I think the idea is the same as I posited earlier but stay in Latin rather than go all the way back to PIE.
I count 208 3rd declension nouns that end in -es.
If you cut off the -s and add -o, there are 11 verb matches.
If you cut off the -es and and -o, there are 35 verb matches.
I haven't checked them all to see if they make sense.

I think some don't. For instance, we have canis, canis = "dog" but cano = "sing" and caneo = "become white."
I'm sure someone is going to tell me there were packs of dogs howling at the moon and that's how the Romans came to name the dogs canes.

What about bes (gen. besis or bessis) = "two-thirds?"
beo = "bless." I think there is no connection there.

By "conceived root," I think they are conjecturing that a verb existed that gave birth to the noun.
For instance from vulpes (alternate spelling volpes) = "fox" one might imagine a verb *vulpo or *volpo = "act like a fox."

 

[Michael Zwingli]

Thanks for your thoughts, scrabulista.

...I count 208 3rd declension nouns that end in -es.
If you cut off the -s and add -o, there are 11 verb matches.
If you cut off the -es and and -o, there are 35 verb matches.
(as pertains to the sense of the above) I think some don't. For instance, we have canis, canis = "dog" but cano = "sing" and caneo = "become white."
(...)By "conceived root," I think they are conjecturing that a verb existed that gave birth to the noun.
For instance from vulpes (alternate spelling volpes) = "fox" one might imagine a verb *vulpo or *volpo = "act like a fox."

Scrabulista, thank you for your statistical gathering. Not sure how you managed that in such a short period of time, but I'm fairly impressed. Of course, not all nouns ending in es are examples of the use of the derivational noun-forming suffix -es (with the "e" macronized), which specifically derives nouns from verbal stems. All nouns which have been formulated by suffixation with -es are, as a rule, deverbal, but not all Latin nouns ending in "es" are deverbal nor have been so formed, e.g. aedes, heres, and indeed, bes. From what I have been able to ascertain, it seems to me that only somewhere around maybee 1/3 of Latin nouns ending in "es" are the product of suffixation with -es; a large percentage of them are, in fact, borrowings of Ancient Greek nouns (many of those proper).

After reading some relevant sections from Allen & Greenough, examining nouns derived using -es, and examining the Wiktionary page in question more thoroughly, I think that I may have some idea about the author's meaning in using the term "concieved root" on that page. Some of the nouns derived through suffixation with -es are compounded words, such as ambages, for instance. Perhaps the author of the "concieved root" language meant that such a compound can be concieved of as a root in derivational suffixation (???) Alternatively, in using the term "concieved root", the author might have been referring to verbal stems or bases, as opposed to "roots". Unfortunately, the author in question has been remiss in failing to elaborate upon his/her choice of terminology within a note.