No pain, no gain

[veronicaopp]

Can someone please help me to translate the phrase "no pain, no gain" to latin?

Thanks

 

[Andy]

Perhaps:

Sine negotio nullum lucrum
lit. Without annoyance (exertion, labor) there is no gain (profit, benefit).

 

[kmp]

A few other suggestions:

sine dolore nullus quaestus = without pain, no gain

nihil quaestus sine dolore = nothing of gain without pain

perhaps

sine dolore sine quaestu = without pain, without gain

all these try to emulate the snappy English phrase, but I think a more classical approach would be something like;

qui non dolet non vincit = (the man) who doesn't suffer doesn't win.

or more simply

qui dolet vincit - who suffers wins

 

[veronicaopp]

Thanks! Are you sure it means the same? It`s quite important because i`m going to take a tattoo with "no pain, no gain" in latin.

But Thanks

 

[kmp]

I think you should always wait a while (a day or two at least) on the forum - it gives other people a chance to correct errors. (I certainly wouldn't trust my Latin for a tatoo).

Note also that if you want to say "the woman who suffers wins" then you should say "quae dolet vincit" or to be more explicit - illa quae dolet vincit.

 

[kmp]

Perhaps I should also point out that there are 1400 registered members of the forum - which sounds impressive. But less impressive is the fact that - currently at least- only 6 people actually answer any Latin queries - cato, lynx, quemquam, Andy, cinefactus and .... me. if one of use makes a mistake and none of the other 5 pick it up (because they're busy or on holiday) , then it will stand uncorrected.

Given this, you are wise to read the forum disclaimer - any translation is used at your own risk.

 

[QMF]

I suppose this should be proposed, although it's less concise:
Qui non dolet non maior fit.
Literally:
He who does not suffer [pain] does not become greater.
Another:
Dolor facit maiorem.
Literally:
Pain makes [one] greater.

And that is indeed a good (albeit somewhat sad) point, kmp. I should mention, however, that Akela does answer a query from time to time, although mostly she "necros" threads of people who have long since given up on an answer. (Sorry Akela!)

 

[Cato]

My take: nil doloris, nil majoris, a combination that preserves the English rhyme. Genitive of specification I think is better here than the adjective nullus.

 

[kmp]

My take: nil doloris, nil majoris, a combination that preserves the English rhyme.

That's really really clever. Quite superb.

 

[veronicaopp]

Would you say that is the most correct translation?

And again, thanks for answer!

 

[kmp]

nil doloris nil majoris is a brilliant translation but it comes over as a little humorous thanks to the chiming rhyme. (as cato intended).

Of course, no pain no gain is also a rather flippant rhyming remark in English. So it's a good fit. In fact it's an exact fit. Just be aware that it's not the most dignified Latin phrase you'll ever hear.

As for its correctness in Latin terms - you can't go wrong with a translation by cato.

 

[veronicaopp]

I found that translation brillitant too.

The reason I asked is because I tried to find the word "nil" in a dictionary, and couldn't fint it..

 

[QMF]

You might be more likely to find nihil. Nil is like a shortened form of nihil.

 

[veronicaopp]

Ah.. I see. =)

 

[veronicaopp]

One more thing for You wise people

Is the grammar of "nil doloris, nil majoris" correct?

I only wonder, becouse i need it perfectly right

This was a bit harder than I thought.. I need a phrase that does exactly say "no pain, no gain"

If you understand my english

 

[curiosus]

I think that if you don't add "rei" to "maioris" you're saying "nothing of the older man". In Latin, maius and maior share the genitive maioris, so Romans said "maioris rei" when speaking of a thing. Maius is a bigger or greater thing, while maior is an elder or ancestor (maiores nostri is a common phrase among Latin writers meaning our ancestors).

Now, if you say nihil doloris nihil rei maioris, that would be correct. Seneca says in one letter "Hoc maioris rei indicium est" meaning "this is a sign of a greater thing".

 

[QMF]

I think for the purpose of terseness and rhythm that you can take rei as implied. Also, to say maior is specifically "older man" is rather overly dependent on how it evolved in other languages (e.g. Spanish mayor); it still is literally the comparative of magnus and should be recognized as such.

 

[curiosus]

I think for the purpose of terseness and rhythm that you can take rei as implied. Also, to say maior is specifically "older man" is rather overly dependent on how it evolved in other languages (e.g. Spanish mayor); it still is literally the comparative of magnus and should be recognized as such.

I respectfully disagree. The partitive genitive is very rarely used with adjectives of the third declension. "nihil maioris" sounds as odd as "nihil laudabilis" instead of "nihil laudabile". Don't take my word for it:

http://www.hhhh.org/perseant/libellus/aides/allgre/allgre.346.html

A latin scholar would without any doubt say "nihil maius" never "nihil maioris". I suggested "rei maioris" in a feeble attempt to save the rhyme the original poster seemed to like.

 

[QMF]

Ah, now I see what you mean. Instead they would use the neuter adj. Makes sense. I think having 4 words is better than preserving the rhyme; the rei just makes things clunky.

 

[Andy]

I agree. It is not a rare case that the poets omit words or change case endings just to preserve style.