Ovid Tristia 2.207-468

Katarina

Member
denique, ut in tanto, quantum non extitit umquam,
corpore pars nulla est, quae labet, imperii.

I am not sure what to do with ut here. Where is the main and where dependant sentence that would go with ut. Maybe it is a part of next two verses, though they seems quite as a whole to me ...

Vrbs quoque te et legum lassat tutela tuarum
et morum, similes quos cupis esse tuis.
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
the ut sounds like there is a sic or an ita preceding somewhere (and the denique also sounds like it should be taken in connection with the preceding lines) ... I feel stupid because I read this a few months ago, but I need to look up the text.
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
Ah ok, I see ... there's nothing preceding it ...
The ut in tanto has to be taken in the sense of 'for such a big ...' or 'considering it is so big' here.

"Finally, for such a big empire [or literally 'body of an empire] - as big as has never existed before - there (still) is no part that is unstable."
Or: "Considering the empire is so big, there is still no part that is unstable in it".
 

Katarina

Member
Ah ok, I see ... there's nothing preceding it ...
The ut in tanto has to be taken in the sense of 'for such a big ...' or 'considering it is so big' here.

"Finally, for such a big empire [or literally 'body of an empire] - as big as has never existed before - there (still) is no part that is unstable."
Or: "Considering the empire is so big, there is still no part that is unstable in it".
But doesn't in tanto mean 'in so big'?
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
But doesn't in tanto mean 'in so big'?

Yes ... but it's hard to imitate that construction in English ... I retain it in the second option by writing:
Considering the empire is so big, there is still no part that is unstable in it
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
Cf. this dictionary entry from Lewis & Short:

b. Reflecting the assertion to particular circumstances, etc., ut = for, as, considering: “hic Geta ut captus est servorum, non malus,Ter. Ad. 3, 4, 34: “ut est captus hominum,Cic. Tusc. 2, 27, 65; Caes. B. G. 4, 3: Themistocles ut apud nos perantiquus, ut apud Athenienses non ita sane vetus, in regard to us, etc., Cic. Brut. 10, 41: “Caelius Antipater, scriptor, ut temporibus illis, luculentus,for those times, id. ib. 26, 102: “nonnihil, ut in tantis malis est profectum,considering the unfortunate state of affairs, id. Fam. 12, 2, 2: “(orationis genus) ut in oratore exile,for an orator, id. Or. 3, 18, 66:
 

Katarina

Member
It is obvious that it should mean this since everyone translates it so but I just can't understand how. :(:(:(
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
I don't know how to explain this ... think of this sentence

"You have a lot of money for a slave"
tibi magna copia pecuniae est ut servo.

In this example, the English construction can kind of mirror the Latin ... however, Latin can also do that with a preposition "ut in ..." -- which you can't really mirror anymore. But it's just an extension of that construction.
 

Katarina

Member
Cf. this dictionary entry from Lewis & Short:

b. Reflecting the assertion to particular circumstances, etc., ut = for, as, considering: “hic Geta ut captus est servorum, non malus,Ter. Ad. 3, 4, 34: “ut est captus hominum,Cic. Tusc. 2, 27, 65; Caes. B. G. 4, 3: Themistocles ut apud nos perantiquus, ut apud Athenienses non ita sane vetus, in regard to us, etc., Cic. Brut. 10, 41: “Caelius Antipater, scriptor, ut temporibus illis, luculentus,for those times, id. ib. 26, 102: “nonnihil, ut in tantis malis est profectum,considering the unfortunate state of affairs, id. Fam. 12, 2, 2: “(orationis genus) ut in oratore exile,for an orator, id. Or. 3, 18, 66:
Yes, I found it but I think we just don't have that kind of phrase in my language (I am not 100% sure how to translate it from English) or for any other reason I can't figure out how to use this on that particular case. Maybe I will just skp this now and try to find an anwser later with someone in Slovene.
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
Don't you have a Latin-Slovene dictionary? If you do, just look up ut + indicative and try to find this construction.
 

Katarina

Member
Don't you have a Latin-Slovene dictionary? If you do, just look up ut + indicative and try to find this construction.
I have at home only one beginner dictionary, I will need to go to the library to use it. In this small one there is nothing useful for this case.
 

Katarina

Member
fecit amor subitas volucres cum paelice regem,
quaeque suum luget nunc quoque mater Ityn.

I am not sure how to understand grammaticaly the first line.
fecit amor - and then ACI - volucres esse subitas - I am not sure what would that mean.
:help:
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
You don't need to assume an esse. Fecit here means "made" in the sense of "turned into". Love made them/turned them into "sudden birds", i.e. turned them suddenly into birds.
 

Katarina

Member
Just to be clear. In sentences like these:

quid loquar Hermionen, quid te, Schoeneïa virgo,
teque, Mycenaeo Phoebas amata duci?
quid Danaën Danaësque nurum matremque Lyaei
Haemonaque et noctes cui coiere duae?

nec qui composuit nuper Sybaritica, fugit,
nec quae concubitus non tacuere suos.

Accusative here means to talk about or to be silenced about. Is this an Accusative of respect? Or there is another reason?
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
Accusative here means to talk about or to be silenced about.
Yes.

Is this an Accusative of respect? Or there is another reason?

No, it is simply the direct object of the verb. loqui and tacere can be transative. Often, the direct object is an AcI, but it can also simply be an accusative object (in the meaning you identified).
 
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