Pactio Olisipiensis censenda est

Robert

New Member
Daniel Hannan, who is a British member of the european parliment, ends every speach he gives in the european parliment with the words in the title;

"Pactio Olisipiensis censenda est"

It's just been too long since I looked at latin; can anyone tell me what he's saying?

Cheers
 

Cinefactus

Censor
Staff member
The treaty of Lisbon must be voted upon.

The reference is to Cato the Elder who reportedly ended every speech with, "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam" (In other matters, I believe that Carthage must be destroyed.)
 

Chamaeleo

New Member
I'd be interested in knowing how he says it.
 

Robert

New Member
You can find quite afew clips of him speaking in the european parliment on youtube.

The links below are the ones I have seen where he repeats the latin phrase most slowly and clearly- in latter statements he is more likely to roll it off quickly, and less clearly, as tends to happen with a much repeated phrase...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwbFqp4lesA[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2-Nv9Awgak[/youtube]
 

Chamaeleo

New Member
Thanks for that.

He pronounces it in a completely anglicised fashion, as ‘pactiou Olisiphiensis sensenda est".

I've just watched a few of his speeches. He is rather pompous and pretentious in all of them, so it is no surprise that he is wont to add this Latin paraphrase at the end.
 

Robert

New Member
True, but his public speeches are often very entertaining too, though I suppose that might change dramatically based ones relationship with British and European politics....
 

equsnarnd

New Member
In his own words.
"I had been playfully echoing Cato the Elder by ending every speech, whatever its subject, with: "Pactio Olisipiensis Censenda Est" ("The Lisbon Treaty must be put to the vote"). It was a harmless enough device. "
What kind of toad would listen to his speeches and think them pompous or pretentious? He is salient, coherent and genuine.
 

jdsetls

New Member
The treatise has to be analysed by the inhabitants of Lisbon.

Olisipo (Olisippo), ōnis, f. : Olisipo (= Lisbonne, city of Lusitanie, where the river Tage meets the sea).
- Olisiponensis, e : from, of Olisipo.

Since it is plural...

and of Lisbon would be Olisipponis, because Olisipo (Olisippo), ōnis means Lisbon

So I presume Olisipiensis, being plurarl, means 'the inhabitant of Lisbon'.

However, from the context, the other translation (the Lisbon treatise is to be put to the vote) is more adjusted, because latin is so elliptic and depends a lot on what was previously in mind. Mine is maybe closer to the text but probably farther from what the author means.

So my conclusion will be :

The treatise must (now) be voted by the deputies present in Lisbon.

12 words instead of 3 : so elliptic !!!
 

Nikolaos

schmikolaos
Staff member
I'm pretty sure that "olisipiensis" is a nominative singular adjective agreeing with "pactio".
 

jdsetls

New Member
Nikolaos dixit:
I'm pretty sure that "olisipiensis" is a nominative singular adjective agreeing with "pactio".
This is most interesting, because it shows how the elliptic style will spur different interpretations, mainly when, in France for example, the word will not exist in the Gaffiot (1500 pages reference dictionary).

I do agree what you say is most likely.
 

Quasus

Civis Illustris
jdsetls, you use Gaffiot, don’t you? The DJVU or the online searchable version (or perhaps a paper copy)?
 

jdsetls

New Member
Quasus dixit:
jdsetls, you use Gaffiot, don’t you? The DJVU or the online searchable version (or perhaps a paper copy)?
Hello,

I use the online version which apparently is mixed withe the Lebaigue.

You may download a digitized version of the Gaffiot :

http://www.prima-elementa.fr/Divers/Gaffiot-pdf.html

Take care, this is a 500 Mo upload

--------

also see :

http://www.prima-elementa.fr/

http://www.prima-elementa.fr/Gaffiot/Gaffiot-dico.html

http://www.prima-elementa.fr/Divers/Dicozip.html

I also subscribed to dicolatin.fr which gives you all the words of a sentence with the most likely meanings of each word and possible declinations for each form. So you may have a global view before you showel out the whole sand. The english version is :

http://www.dicolatin.com/EN/LAT/0/index.htm

The price is 39 € a year and it is worth it. With this tool and some instinct you will work much quicker. It is a kind of burst mode dictionary. However the english version I just checked will not give you the meaning of the words like in french.

If you want to test it in french, I will lend you my id : jdsetls, and for the pass, just email me at jdsetls@aim.com.

Greetings f'rom Strasbourg,

Jacques De Schryver
jdsetls@aim.com
 

Quasus

Civis Illustris
Since Latin-French dictionaries are of interest only for those who read in French, I hope no one will mind my try at this language. :)

Jacques, merci pour les liens ! J’ai téléchargé le Gaffiot, mais il me semble, que le cherche ne marche pas sauf si le Foxit n’est pas chargé. En effet, je n’ai pas tellement envie de le fermer et recharger mille fois…

Moi, j’avais téléchargé un DJVU d’ici: Gaffiot, mais naturellement il n’y a pas de cherche. :( On pourrait écrire un petit script de cherche, mais d’abord il faudrait indexer les 1550 pages à la main… De toute façon, Gaffiot est chouette !

Et quant aux dictionnaires français-latins ? J’en ai trouver plusieurs sur Google livres, mais il faudrait les indexer aussi.

Si vous avez compris tout cela, je fais des progrès. ;) J’apprends le français maintenant, et mes connaissances du latin sont beaucoup plus profondes. Alors, excuses mes fautes, s’il vous plaît. :)
 

Quasus

Civis Illustris
Si ça vous dirait, on pourrait indexer ensemble quelque dictionnaire. Cela vaut la peine, je vous assure.
 

jdsetls

New Member
Quasus dixit:
Si ça vous dirait, on pourrait indexer ensemble quelque dictionnaire. Cela vaut la peine, je vous assure.
Je suis informaticien, alors oui, c'est possible.

Donnez-moi votre email.

Jacques
 

jdsetls

New Member
Quasus dixit:
Si ça vous dirait, on pourrait indexer ensemble quelque dictionnaire. Cela vaut la peine, je vous assure.
Impossible to read your message.

OK for indexing latin dictionaties.

Write me to jdsetls@aim.com

or give me your email

Jacques
 
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