page 207; The Death of Laocoon...and Troy, the first part.

john abshire

Well-Known Member
Hic alius magnus timor (O fabula misera!) animos caecos nostros terret. Laocoon, sacerdos Neptuni fortuna factus, acrem taurum ad aram in litore mactabat. Tum gemini serpentes potentes, mare prementes, ab insula ad litora currunt. Iamque agros tenebant et, oculis igne ardentibus, ora linguis sibilis lambebant.

This other large fear (O wretched story!) terrifies our blind mind/spirit. Laocoon, after being made a priest of Neptune by fortune, sacrificed a fierce bull to the altar on the shore. Then twin powerful snakes, overwhelming the sea, hurried from an island to the shore. And now they were holding fields and, with eyes having been burned with fire, they were licking the shores with hissing tongues.

Please help with this translation.
particularly the bold part. Ora is nominative, but accusative was the only way i could make it fit in. Also, if linguis and sibilis had an et between them, I would have felt much better about my translation.
thanks

edits are in bold red
 
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scrabulista

Consul
Staff member
I'm thinking fortuna is ablative.
Look up os (the one whose genitive is not ossis)
sibilis can also be an adjective.
 

john abshire

Well-Known Member
I'm thinking fortuna is ablative.
Look up os (the one whose genitive is not ossis)
sibilis can also be an adjective.
--Fortuna is ablative, and i translated it this way, but I feel sure I got the translation wrong (anyway); fortuna factus, I translated as an ablative absolute “with the fortune having been made”; but I think for this to be right, it should be fortuna facta (macron over the a in both words)? So, how else did you mean for me to translate fortuna, (in the ablative case)?
-- os oris = mouth, which may make more sense, but I can’t get to ora with os oris, (it is 3rd declension).
--Sibilis as an adjective does make more sense. “With Hissing/ whistling tongues”. I will make the change in the original post, in bold red.
 

scrabulista

Consul
Staff member
os oris is neuter; ora can be nom pl or acc pl.
I was thinking "made a priest of Neptune by fortune (luck)"
 

Bestiola

Sciura Tigrina Croatica
Staff member
Hic alius magnus timor (O fabula misera!) animos caecos nostros terret. Laocoon, sacerdos Neptuni fortuna factus, acrem taurum ad aram in litore mactabat. Tum gemini serpentes potentes, mare prementes, ab insula ad litora currunt. Iamque agros tenebant et, oculis igne ardentibus, ora linguis sibilis lambebant.

This other large fear (O wretched story!) terrifies our blind mind/spirit. Laocoon, after being made a priest of Neptune by fortune, sacrificed a fierce bull to the altar on the shore. Then twin powerful snakes, overwhelming the sea, hurried from an island to the shore. And now they were holding fields and, with eyes having been burned with fire, they were licking the shores with hissing tongues.

Please help with this translation.
particularly the bold part. Ora is nominative, but accusative was the only way i could make it fit in. Also, if linguis and sibilis had an et between them, I would have felt much better about my translation.
thanks

edits are in bold red
oculis igne ardentibus - present active participle action means an action in progress, and is usually translated with a verb ending in -ing in English. Hence "eyes burning with fire" rather than "eyes having burned by fire". The fire is exuding from the eyes.
 
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Bestiola

Sciura Tigrina Croatica
Staff member
Hic alius magnus timor (O fabula misera!) animos caecos nostros terret. Laocoon, sacerdos Neptuni fortuna factus, acrem taurum ad aram in litore mactabat. Tum gemini serpentes potentes, mare prementes, ab insula ad litora currunt. Iamque agros tenebant et, oculis igne ardentibus, ora linguis sibilis lambebant.

This other large fear (O wretched story!) terrifies our blind mind/spirit. Laocoon, after being made a priest of Neptune by fortune, sacrificed a fierce bull to the altar on the shore. Then twin powerful snakes, overwhelming the sea, hurried from an island to the shore. And now they were holding fields and, with eyes having been burned with fire, they were licking the shores with hissing tongues.

Please help with this translation.
particularly the bold part. Ora is nominative, but accusative was the only way i could make it fit in. Also, if linguis and sibilis had an et between them, I would have felt much better about my translation.
thanks

edits are in bold red
mactabat - imperfect means a past action in progress - "he was sacrifficing" rather than "he sacrificed".
 

Bestiola

Sciura Tigrina Croatica
Staff member
Hic alius magnus timor (O fabula misera!) animos caecos nostros terret. Laocoon, sacerdos Neptuni fortuna factus, acrem taurum ad aram in litore mactabat. Tum gemini serpentes potentes, mare prementes, ab insula ad litora currunt. Iamque agros tenebant et, oculis igne ardentibus, ora linguis sibilis lambebant.

This other large fear (O wretched story!) terrifies our blind mind/spirit. Laocoon, after being made a priest of Neptune by fortune, sacrificed a fierce bull to the altar on the shore. Then twin powerful snakes, overwhelming the sea, hurried from an island to the shore. And now they were holding fields and, with eyes having been burned with fire, they were licking the shores with hissing tongues.

Please help with this translation.
particularly the bold part. Ora is nominative, but accusative was the only way i could make it fit in. Also, if linguis and sibilis had an et between them, I would have felt much better about my translation.
thanks

edits are in bold red
animos caecos

Btw, caecus can be "blind" but also "made blind, blinded". Just my interpretation, but I'd say their souls were blinded by fear.
 

john abshire

Well-Known Member
animos caecos

Btw, caecus can be "blind" but also "made blind, blinded". Just my interpretation, but I'd say their souls were blinded by fear.
--"This other large fear blinded our soul." is a way to say what you are suggesting the author means, but I can't get the words to fit; an adjective becomes a verb (blinded), and I have to leave out a verb (terrifies). However, In general, if I thought this was what the author meant, would i be correct in translating the sentence this way? i.e. are there similar examples --that are correct?

--I can't edit the original post now, it has been too long, so I copied the original post. Then in the (previously edited) English translation, I added the corrections suggested by you and Agrippa.

Hic alius magnus timor (O fabula misera!) animos caecos nostros terret. Laocoon, sacerdos Neptuni fortuna factus, acrem taurum ad aram in litore mactabat. Tum gemini serpentes potentes, mare prementes, ab insula ad litora currunt. Iamque agros tenebant et, oculis igne ardentibus, ora linguis sibilis lambebant.

This other large fear (O wretched story!) terrifies our blinded soul. Laocoon, after being made a priest of Neptune by fortune, was sacrificing a fierce bull to the altar on the shore. Then twin powerful snakes, overwhelming the sea, hurried from an island to the shore. And now they were holding fields, and eyes burning with fire, they were licking their jaws with hissing tongues.

first edit; bold red
second edit; bold blue
 

Bestiola

Sciura Tigrina Croatica
Staff member
--"This other large fear blinded our soul." is a way to say what you are suggesting the author means, but I can't get the words to fit; an adjective becomes a verb (blinded), and I have to leave out a verb (terrifies). However, In general, if I thought this was what the author meant, would i be correct in translating the sentence this way? i.e. are there similar examples --that are correct?

--I can't edit the original post now, it has been too long, so I copied the original post. Then in the (previously edited) English translation, I added the corrections suggested by you and Agrippa.

Hic alius magnus timor (O fabula misera!) animos caecos nostros terret. Laocoon, sacerdos Neptuni fortuna factus, acrem taurum ad aram in litore mactabat. Tum gemini serpentes potentes, mare prementes, ab insula ad litora currunt. Iamque agros tenebant et, oculis igne ardentibus, ora linguis sibilis lambebant.

This other large fear (O wretched story!) terrifies our blinded soul. Laocoon, after being made a priest of Neptune by fortune, was sacrificing a fierce bull to the altar on the shore. Then twin powerful snakes, overwhelming the sea, hurried from an island to the shore. And now they were holding fields, and eyes burning with fire, they were licking their jaws with hissing tongues.

first edit; bold red
second edit; bold blue
Regarding "animos caecos" it's just my opinion :) It can mean "blinded", yes, but "blind souls" seems fine too, if it's hard for you to put it into words like that, just leave your own version if you like.

This is the original on which it was based:

Hic aliud maius miseris multoque tremendum
obicitur magis, atque improvida pectora turbat.

More or less loosely translated as:
"Then, it throws to the unfortunate ones, something much bigger and more to be feared,
and disturbs (their) unsuspecting hearts."

(Whitaker?) transformed it into "animos caecos".
 

scrabulista

Consul
Staff member
oculis igne ardentibus - present active participle action means an action in progress, and is usually translated with a verb ending in -ing in English. Hence "eyes burning with fire" rather than "eyes having burned by fire". The fire is exuding from the eyes.
Was it literal fire?
 

Bestiola

Sciura Tigrina Croatica
Staff member
Was it literal fire?
It's taken from Vergil, I'd say yes.

Vergil has it too, just said a bit more poetically with "red-bloodied crests":

Ecce autem gemini a Tenedo tranquilla per alta
horresco referensimmensis orbibus angues
incumbunt pelago, pariterque ad litora tendunt;
pectora quorum inter fluctus arrecta iubaeque
sanguineae superant
undas; pars cetera pontum
pone legit, sinuatque immensa volumine terga.

Behold, however, twin serpents, stretching from Tenedo through the tranquil depth
- I'm telling this frightened - (which are)
pressing upon the sea in boundless hoops, and equally are pressing towards the shores;
Their erect chests in-between the waves and
(red) bloodied crests are rising above the billows
; the other part (of the body)
skims the sea behind, and immense back swells out in coils.
 
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