Psallite sapienter - Sacred music

Gregorius Textor

Civis Illustris
Gratias tibi ago propter responsum tuum. Proculdubio omnes qui circum me sunt more meo loquuntur. Ut ait Cicero, tantum "musicorum aures vel minima sentiunt", sed ego musicus non sunt, nam exaudire auribus meis hunc vocis afflatum non possum.
Caelitus sit tibi gratiae copia.
P.S.: Esto parato, amice, quoniam crastino die festum magnum celebrabimur!
It's possible I would understand more of your comment if I had more time to study it, but for now, here's what I think you're saying:

I thank you for your answer. I am far from doubting (I do not doubt much) that everyone around me speaks in the same manner as I do. As Cicero says, only "the ears of musicians (or?) (they sense the smallest things?)", but I am not a musician, for to hear this voiced-breathing (blowing/breathing out of voice) with my ears is not possible.
(From heaven be to thee plenty of grace?) [Tibique quoque, amice!]
P.S. Be prepared, friend, for tomorrow we celebrate a great feast! [i.e., Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, September 8]
Hm! After taking the time to write this out, I find I understand more than I thought I did at first.
 

EstQuodFulmineIungo

Auditor et Discipulus
It's possible I would understand more of your comment if I had more time to study it, but for now, here's what I think you're saying:

Hm! After taking the time to write this out, I find I understand more than I thought I did at first.
I just realized I made (at least) two errors in that: Instead of "nam" I should have used "exinde", and "paratus" instead of "parato".
As of "Musicorum aures vel minima sentiunt", in this case "vel" means "even": "The musician's ears hear even the smallest things". "Vel" can be used also this way.
 

Gregorius Textor

Civis Illustris
SALVE CRUX SANCTA: HAIL HOLY CROSS (3 1/4 minutes)

https://soundcloud.com/chartres-cathedrale-notre%2Fsalve-crux-sancta-hymne
(I wish I could find a performance of the Dominican version of this, which is very cool.)

Salve, crux sancta, salve mundi glória,
vera spes nostra, vera ferens gáudia,
signum salútis, salus in perículis,
vitále lignum vitam portans ómnium.

Te adorándam, te crucem vivíficam,
in te redémpti, dulce decus sǽculi,
semper laudámus, semper tibi cánimus,
per lignum servi, per te, lignum, líberi.

Laus Deo Patri sit in cruce Fílii,
laus coæquáli sit Sancto Spirítui;
cívibus summis gáudium et ángelis,
honor sit mundo crucis exaltátio. Amen.

---

My attempted translation:

Hail, holy cross, hail glory of the world,
our true hope, truly bringing (true bringer of) joy,
sign of health/safety, safety in dangers
*[by life the tree bringing life of all]?

*[Thee adoring, thee the cross life-giving,]?
redeemed in thee, sweet splendor/honor of ages,
always we praise (and) always sing to thee,
(made) slaves through a tree, (made) free children through thee, O Tree.

Praise to God the Father be through the cross of the Son,
praise co-equal be to the Holy Spirit;
joy to the highest citizens and angels,
*[Let the exaltation of the cross be honor to/for the world/clean]?
 

EstQuodFulmineIungo

Auditor et Discipulus
And I think "sed ego musicus non sunt sum".

But "nam" made good sense to me.
You're right.
In the middle ages and among the humanists people harnessing with Latin were divided into two cathegories: "latinantes" and "non latinantes". The "non latinantes" used to study Latin on the Psalter (pueri de tabula) and the grammar of Donatus. They were able to understand Latin, but they wouldn't write that much, and if they did, it was quite ungrammatical (credo memineris, credo quod, pur, ...). The other cathegory, with the help of an auctorista (which then took the name of humanista), could come up with some good Latin. I don't consider myself as part of the latinantes...

Here's an excerpt one of the endings for the Requiem Mozart never finished to write. The author is Sigismund Neukomm.


Libera me, Domine,
de morte aeterna
in die illa tremenda
quando coeli movendi sunt et terra
dum veneris judicare saeculum per ignem...

Given the occasion, I would have posted the Stabat mater, but I've already posted it some time ago
 

Terry S.

Quaestor
Staff member
quando coeli movendi sunt et terra
dum veneris judicare saeculum per ignem...
A good reminder to go to confession while there is still breath in the body.
 

EstQuodFulmineIungo

Auditor et Discipulus
SALVE CRUX SANCTA: HAIL HOLY CROSS (3 1/4 minutes)

https://soundcloud.com/chartres-cathedrale-notre%2Fsalve-crux-sancta-hymne
(I wish I could find a performance of the Dominican version of this, which is very cool.)

Salve, crux sancta, salve mundi glória,
vera spes nostra, vera ferens gáudia,
signum salútis, salus in perículis,
vitále lignum vitam portans ómnium.

Te adorándam, te crucem vivíficam,
in te redémpti, dulce decus sǽculi,
semper laudámus, semper tibi cánimus,
per lignum servi, per te, lignum, líberi.

Laus Deo Patri sit in cruce Fílii,
laus coæquáli sit Sancto Spirítui;
cívibus summis gáudium et ángelis,
honor sit mundo crucis exaltátio. Amen.
My attempted translation:

Hail, holy cross, hail glory of the world,
our true hope, truly bringing (true bringer of) joy,
sign of health/safety, safety in dangers
vital tree, bringing the life of all

"thou who ought to be adored, life-giving cross
redeemed in thee, sweet splendor/honor of the ages,
always we praise (and) always sing to thee,
(made) slaves through a tree, (made) free through thee,

Praise be to God the Father be through the cross of the Son,
praise co-equal be to the Holy Spirit;
joy to the highest citizens and angels,
Let the exaltation of the cross be honor to/for the world/ all created things


AND BTW Stat crux dum volvitur orbis!
 
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Terry S.

Quaestor
Staff member
My attempted translation:

Hail, holy cross, hail glory of the world,
our true hope, truly bringing (true bringer of) joy,
sign of health/safety, safety in dangers
(vivifying tree, bringing the life of all)

"thee who ought to be adored, life-giving cross
redeemed in thee, sweet splendor/honor of the ages,
always we praise (and) always sing to thee,
(made) slaves through a tree, (made) free through thee,

Praise be to God the Father be through the cross of the Son,
praise co-equal be to the Holy Spirit;
joy to the highest citizens and angels,
Let the exaltation of the cross be honor to/for the world/ all created things
I think that one ought to be a thou, but I'm no expert in oldish English. Maybe @Pacifica can help?
 

EstQuodFulmineIungo

Auditor et Discipulus
I'm searching for a book that has Greek, orthodox prayers on a side and the correspondent translation on the right (in English or Latin or Italian). By prayers I mean all kind of stuff from their lithurgy. I think they call it "Προσευχητάρι", but I'd like one with a translation and, possibly, some explanatory notes. I mean, the site is done very well and it's very interesting. But it's too tough for me, because I'm not really into Greek. I've found a Liturgikon of the Catholic Churches sui juris, but I'd like an Orthodox one (i don't even know what are the differences). Maybe some of you can help me.
 

Terry S.

Quaestor
Staff member
I'm sorry, but this is the best I can come up with.


It has some of the liturgy available in Greek and English but on separate pages. Maybe if you email them, they might be able to point you to a book. There has to be some kind of bi-lingual text for American-Greeks. I have a small bi-lingual Ukrainian-English missal, so I can't believe the Americans are behind the UK Ukrainian Eparchate in publishing.
 

EstQuodFulmineIungo

Auditor et Discipulus
Thank you both. I'll write to the Greek Church of the USA. The idea of some entries on that page is exactly what I meant (Greek/English), but I'd like better something in the form of a Book
 

Gregorius Textor

Civis Illustris
A MeWe friend of mine who is Greek Orthodox says that this is "a tall order", i.e., hard to satisfy. Many Greek Orthodox churches in the U.S. "have a large portion of the service in Greek," but "they don't actually publish much in Greek from their book store. Everything is in English."

He recommends a book called Daily Prayers for Orthodox Christians: The synekdemos (English and Greek edition). I asked if it provides the liturgy, used in public worship (which I think is what you are looking for, EstQuod), or is more geared towards personal, private prayer.

He does not have a copy of it himself, but was able to provide this information "from another website":

"Each page is dual sided with the Greek on the left and English on the right.

Chaptered prayers include:
The Symbol of Faith
Morning Prayers
Prayers at Mealtime
Prayers Before Sleep
The Six Psalms
Small Compline
Service of Preparation for Holy Communion
Thanksgiving Following Holy Communion"

So it seems to be more for personal prayer, and therefore, maybe not what you're asking for.
 

EstQuodFulmineIungo

Auditor et Discipulus
On the same GOARCH site which Terry mentioned, but a different page, is the Digital Chant Stand, which contains Greek and English side by side. Pick a date, then select one of the "GR-EN PDF/Print".
that's nice, I think it's their liturgical "Himerologion". However, the general idea I had in mind was something like the Roman Missal, just for the Greek Orthodox rite. The synekdemos seems near to what I had in mind, but it's out of stock. Maybe, eventually, I'll settle with a version totally in Greek and pray for some "caelitus" help so that I may understand :D.
 

Terry S.

Quaestor
Staff member
that's nice, I think it's their liturgical "Himerologion". However, the general idea I had in mind was something like the Roman Missal, just for the Greek Orthodox rite. The synekdemos seems near to what I had in mind, but it's out of stock. Maybe, eventually, I'll settle with a version totally in Greek and pray for some "caelitus" help so that I may understand :D.
As far as I know, the Greeks don't have a single book for their liturgies, the stuff is scattered throughout diverse volumes.
 

EstQuodFulmineIungo

Auditor et Discipulus
Yes, mount Athos's (agion oros) monastery has some liturgical books (Greek-only). My ideal book was some equivalent of the Roman missal, however they seem to have either a collection of massive tomes for their Horologion (which must be similar to our "horarum Liturgia") in use in the monastery or very slight prayer books "ad usum delphini" for personal prayer. A compact missal that has only a summary of Sunday's celebration and the most important vespers doesn't seem to exist.
 
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