Qua resurget ex favilla; Dona eis requiem

phonohead

New Member
I realize that this bone may have been gnawed on a few times already. Searched the forums, and I came across some almost-complete translations/answers to what I wanted to know. But, I need to have it specified to the single sentences I'm curious about.

1: Qua resurget ex favilla
2: Dona eis requiem

According to several websites and different translations, 1 gives something like: from ashes shall [a]rise and 2: grant them eternal rest.

If that's 95-100% correct, and approved as proper sentences and latin, then it's all good. If not, I'd appreciate any suggestions/corrections to make the sentences have a meaning.

This is for an art-installation of the permanent kind, so the sentences has to make some sense - if not be entirely correct(ed).

Any help appreciated!
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Hello,

Those are both phrases from the song Dies Irae. The second one means "grant them rest" (in the context, it's about eternal rest, but it doesn't actually say "eternal") and works on its own. The first one, however, doesn't really work on its own as a complete sentence (well, it could in theory work as a complete sentence, but with a pretty different meaning from the one it has in its context). The context in which it's found is:

Lacrimosa dies illa,
qua resurget ex favilla
judicandus homo reus.

Tearful will be that day on which the guilty man shall rise from the ashes to be judged.
 

phonohead

New Member
Hello,

Those are both phrases from the song Dies Irae. The second one means "grant them rest" (in the context, it's about eternal rest, but it doesn't actually say "eternal") and works on its own. The first one, however, doesn't really work on its own as a complete sentence (well, it could in theory work as a complete sentence, but with a pretty different meaning from the one it has in its context). The context in which it's found is:

Lacrimosa dies illa,
qua resurget ex favilla
judicandus homo reus.

Tearful will be that day on which the guilty man shall rise from the ashes to be judged.

Thank you so much your insights. Could "qua resurget ex favilla" be altered in some ways to make sense in accordance to: "shall rise from the ashes"? If, for instance, that's the phrase I want?
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Yes, but it depends who shall rise. Do you mean "I shall rise" or "He shall rise", or...?
 

phonohead

New Member
If the Latin word for "I" can omitted, it'd be best - but yes, it's a personal agenda that is supposed to be conveyed by a character. Is there a way to achieve that?
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
"I" wouldn't need to be expressed by a word in Latin, but the ending of the verb must change according to the person.

E.g. resurgam = "I shall rise"; resurges = "you(sg.) shall rise"; resurget = "he/she/it shall rise", etc.

So it's impossible to say only "shall rise" without denoting a person (I, you, he, etc.) at the same time.

Now, there is a way to say "one (I, you, he, anyone depending on context) must rise" impersonally, without specifying "I" or "you" etc.

Let me know what you'd like.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
"One shall rise from the ashes": resurgetur ex favilla.
 

phonohead

New Member
Then what is exactly "qua" in the sentence I provided at first; qua resurget ex favilla? From an esthetic point of view, "qua" should be there. But, that will actually render a useless sentence?
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
It corresponds to "on which" in the original lyrics:
Lacrimosa dies illa,
qua resurget ex favilla
judicandus homo reus.

Tearful will be that day on which the guilty man shall rise from the ashes to be judged.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
It depends what style you want (if you want to imitate an ancient or medieval style, or not). Romans didn't capitalize or punctuate like we do, but later Latinists have generally used capitalization and punctuation ever since they were invented.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
In ancient Roman style? It might have appeared engraved on a monument like this:

RESVRGETVR·EX·FAVILLA

DONA·EIS·REQVIEM
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
I don't know. To me, it's just an imitation of a certain Roman style. For another Roman style, less often imitated (because more difficult), you could try to imitate the Roman cursive. You have to decide for yourself what you like most. If you want to know more about different styles at different periods, you can have a look at the link in my signature.
 

phonohead

New Member
I don't know how to go about to try the cursive style, but I could try to dig around and see if I can figure it out.
 

Imber Ranae

Ranunculus Iracundus
Roman cursive will just look like chicken scratchings to most people. I wouldn't recommend it.
 

Etaoin Shrdlu

Civis Illustris
If you're aiming at historical accuracy, you can't really use anything earlier than something that was being used in the 13th century, because that's when the text was written. If you're not bothered or are looking for a deliberate anachronism, you might as well go with whatever takes your fancy.
 
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