Sae hominem causae
- Thread starter Rocit
- Start date
Huh, could it be like. "if the causes are unknown to man, despite the thing attests itself." 
Here it says "si hominem...". Could you tell me what page is that by the way?
http://widgets.bestmoodle.net/scriptdata/camerarius.html
Here it says "si hominem...". Could you tell me what page is that by the way?
http://widgets.bestmoodle.net/scriptdata/camerarius.html
There appear to be a couple of different versions out there. The one with si makes the most sense:
Multa negat Ratio: at vera experientia monstrat,
Si hominem causae, re sibi teste, latent.
Reason refuses much: but Experience reveals what is true,
Even if the causes, when the thing bears witness to itself, lie hid from a man.
The most sense I can make of what you have is as follows, but it's significantly less satisfactory:Multa negat Ratio: at vera Experientia monstrat;
S(u)ae hominem causae, re sibi teste, latent.
Reason refuses many things: but Experience reveals the truth;
A man's own reasons, though the thing testifies to itself, are concealed from him.
There's also a version with se as the first word, but that would seem to defy grammatical analysis.
D
Deleted member 13757
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Consider a non monosyllabic word on account of elision. Something like si[ve]
I prefer the "suae" reading
Multa negat Ratio: at vera Experientia monstrat;
S(u)ae hominem causae, re sibi teste, latent.
But my translation:
Reason denies many things: but Experience reveals the truth;
A thing's causes may hide from a man, though the thing testifies to itself.
Ratio constat non omnium
Reason does not account for all things.
Multa negat Ratio: at vera Experientia monstrat;
S(u)ae hominem causae, re sibi teste, latent.
But my translation:
Reason denies many things: but Experience reveals the truth;
A thing's causes may hide from a man, though the thing testifies to itself.
Ratio constat non omnium
Reason does not account for all things.
But you can't start the pentameter with a short syllabe.
Suae as a non-reflexive possessive is odd, though I suppose still possible if these are of medieval origin.
The bigger problem with suae is that it doesn't scan. With si there's a required hiatus, but it fits the meter otherwise.
Ah, right! Maybe sic?
Quite possibly, though I can't find a version with sic anywhere online.
As for the metre, you may well be right, and then sic would work for sense and metre. And that would satisfy me better than "si".
But regarding suae: this always confuses me, but if we take "res" as the subject in this sentence: "re sibi teste", wouldn't "suae" refer to its causes then?
It seems to me that the most likely referent of suae would be hominem and not a word within an absolute clause.
D
Deleted member 13757
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latent is transitive here. This epigram (for me) reads as:
"the truth is reveled through practice and hard work, not just by "knowing/thinking to know""
"but a man is kept from it, as it is it evident, by excuses."
or however else you want to render it in English. It's not si nor suae here. I'd say it is saepe hominem. saepe would scan correctly, and fits the meaning.
"the truth is reveled through practice and hard work, not just by "knowing/thinking to know""
"but a man is kept from it, as it is it evident, by excuses."
or however else you want to render it in English. It's not si nor suae here. I'd say it is saepe hominem. saepe would scan correctly, and fits the meaning.
D
Deleted member 13757
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No, for metrical reasons it cannot be that. See posts above.
Yes. See this post for examples.
That's how we've all been translating it...
That's rather interpretive, I feel, but whatever. As for saepe or sic, it's all speculative.