News (Languages) Sardinian

Domine

Member
Has anyone ever listened to spoken Sardinian and/or read Sardinian survival phrases? I have found websites where they show survival phrases. I have, also, found websites where one can listen to native speakers speak Nuorese/Logudorese. It's supposedly the closest language to Latin. It sounds a lot like Italian and Spanish blended in one. I have included herein the Lord's Prayer and survival phrases:

The Lord's Prayer in two Sardinian variants, said to be the most conservative to Latin:
Babbu nostru, ch'istas in sos chelos, santifcadu siada su lumene tuo, venzada a nois su regnu tuo, sia fatta sa voluntade tua comente i'su chelu i'sa terra. Dae nos oje su pane nostru cotidianu, perdona a nois sos peccados nostros comente nois los perdonamus, libera da ogni tentsassione, libera nos a male. (Sardinian - nuorese)

Babbu nostru k'istas in sos kelos, santificadu siat su nòmene tou, benzat a nois su regnu tou e fatta siat sa voluntade tua comente in su kelu gai in sa terra. Su pane nostru de dogni die dàdenolu oe, perdona a nois sos peccados nostros perdona a nois sos peccados nostros comente nois perdonamus sos inimigos nostros, e non nos lesses ruer in tentatzione, ma lìberanos dae su male. Amen. (Sardinian - logudorese)

Pater noster, qui est in coelis, sanctificetur nomen tuum. Adveniat regnum tuum, fiat voluntas tua sicut in coelo et in terra. Panem nostrum cottidianum da nobis hodie et dimitte nobis dedita nostra, sicut nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris. Et ne nos inducas in temptationem, sed libera nos a malo. Amen. (Latin)

Listen to spoken Nuorese and Logudorese:
http://globalrecordings.net/en/program/C08601
http://globalrecordings.net/en/program/C08600
http://www.mondosardegna.net/eng/linguasarda/linguasarda.htm

English = Sardinian (logudorese?)
Welcome - Ennidos
Hello - Bone die
How are you? Coment'istas? (sg)
Coment'istades? (pl)
I'm fine and you? Ene, e tue? (sg)
Ene, e bois? (pl)

What's your name? - Comment ti jamas?
My name is - Eu so
Where are you from? -De inne ses?
I'm from - Eu so de ...
Pleased to meet you - Piaghere
Good morning - Bon jiorno
Good afternoon - Bona sera
Good evening - Bona sera
Good night - Bona notte
Goodbye - Adiosu / ciauu
Cheers/Good health! Salute!
Bon appetit - Bon appetito
Bon voyage - Bonu iazzu
I understand - Appo cumpresu
I don't understand - No appo cumpresu nutta
I don't know - Non d'isco
Please speak more slowly - Faedda pianu / Pius pianu
Please write it down - Iscrielu (pro piaghere)
Do you speak English? - Faeddas s'inglesu?
Do you speak Sardinian? - Faeddas su sardu?
Yes, a little - Emmo, nu pagu
How do you say ... in Sardinian? - Comente si narata ... ni sardu?
How much is this? - Cantu costat?
Sorry - Mi dispiaghet (meda)
Please - Pro piaghere
Thank you - Grazie / Grazie meda / De nudda
Where's the toilet? - Ainue est su bagnu?
Would you like to dance with me? - Cheres ballare?
I miss you - Mi mancas
I love you - T'amo
Go away! - Andadicche!
Leave me alone! - Lassami in paghe!
Help! - Agguidu!
Fire! - Focu!
Stop! - Sirvone!
Call the police! - Jama sa polizia!
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year - Bon nadale e bon annu
Happy Easter - Bona pasca
Happy Birthday - Auguri

Sardinian (nuorese?) = English
Bonas dies! -Hello! / Hi!
Pro praghere. - Please.
Gratzias. - Thanks.
Gratzias meda - Thanks a lot!
De nudda. - You're welcome.
Bona tarde. - Good afternoon.
Bona notte. - Good evening/night.
faeddo - I speak
faeddas - you speak
a faeddas - do you speak
A faeddas s'ingresu? - Do you speak English?
non faeddo su sardu - I don't speak
isco - I know
ischis [iskis] - you know
non isco - I don't know
unu pagu - a bit
unu pagu de - a bit of
unu pagu de sardu - a bit of Sardinian
meda - a lot
Ite ti nas? - What's your name?
Mi naro ____. My name is ____.
Praghere. -Nice to meet you.
unu, duos, tre - one, two, three
battor, chimbe, ses -four, five, six
sete, oto, nove, deghe - seven, eight, nine, ten
Inuve est...? - Where is...?
su ristorante - the restaurant
s'albergu - the hotel
su caffè - the café
A b'est...? - Is there...?
B'est... - There is...
s'abba - water
su binu - wine
sa petha - meat
Adiosu! - Goodbye!

Sardinian grammar works a lot like other Romance languages.

Nouns are masculine or feminine, and take either a masculine or feminine article: su binu (the) wine, sa petha (the) meat. This is true for plural nouns, too: sos ristorantes (the) restaurants, sas citades (the) cities.

Verbs do much of the heavy lifting in a sentence, and do not require a subject to express a complete thought: naro I say (but you can use the pronoun for emphasis: dego naro I say). This is because, as in other Romance languages, verbs have six forms that plainly show the person performing the action. For example:

mandicare - to eat

mandico - I eat
mandicamus - we eat
mandicas - you eat
mandicadzis - all of you eat
mandicat - he/she/it eats
mandìcanta - they eat

The endings vary depending on the verb's type (-are/-ere/-ire) and the tense/mood of the verb (e.g. if the verb's action happened in the past). Sardinian uses verb phrases to express many tense/moods - the past tense is structured like apo mandicatu I ate (lit. "I have eaten") and the future as deo mandicare I will eat (lit. "I ought to eat").
Also, not all verbs take regular endings. Here's a useful example of an irregular Sardinian verb:

essere - to be

soe - I am
semus - we are
ses - you are
sedzis - all of you are
est - he/she/it is
suntu - they are

Again, notice that subject pronouns are optional and add stress/emphasis if you include them: nois semus WE are vs. semus we are; tue ses YOU are vs. ses you are. Sardinian also has a wide range of clitic object pronouns, which build around the verb: lu mandico "I eat it"; nde mandico tres "I eat three of it/them"; bi nde sun tres "there are three of them".

Sentences follow the basic word order subject (optional) + verb + object, although word order is less fixed than in English. When asking a question, Sardinian speakers use a question word (Chine ses? Who are you?; Ite est? What is it?) or use the question particle "a" (A lu mandicas? Do you eat it?; A nde cheres? Do you want some?).

Websites:
http://nativlang.com/sardinian-language/sardinian-basic-phrases.php
http://www.omniglot.com/language/phrases/sardinian.php
 

Manus Correctrix

QVAE CORRIGIT
More like Portuguese than Spanish.
 

Domine

Member
More like Portuguese than Spanish.
No, I wouldn't say so. At first glance, it does...especially in written form. However, when it's spoken it comes off like a combination of Italian and Spanish (along with Catalan) immersed also with its own development in isolation. Sardinian also has remnants of Phoenician, Greek, Arabic and the like. Keep in mind Sardinia was conquered and governed by the Spanish Crown for 400 years -- circa 1323 to 1720. The Sardinian spoken in Cagliari sounds a lot more Portuguese-like than Spanish/Italian. Listen to the Cagliari dialect here: http://www.mondosardegna.net/eng/linguasarda/linguasarda.htm

Again, Sardinian also has a wide range of clitic object pronouns, which build around the verb:
Dego naro (I say), = Ego narro (Vulgar latin* how it developed in Sardinia)
Eu so de (I am from), = Ego sum (Classical/vulgar latin)
Deo mandicare (I will eat) = Ego mandicare (vulgar latin)

Coment = French influence from "comment"
Istas / istades = Spanish influence from estás / estáis

ergo, "comment'istas?" (how are you?) and "coment'istades?" (how are you guys?)

but...

ite ti nas? = how are you
ite bos nades? = how are you guys

Note: each Sardinian dialect/region may have its own word/verb preference.

Spanish derivatives.
ennidos = bienvenidos
adiosu = adiós
bona tarde = buenas tardes
gratzias = gracias
jamas = llamas
etc.
 

Aurifex

Aedilis
Staff member
It's supposedly the closest language to Latin.
I didn't know there was a way of actually measuring the closeness one language has to another. Is there a way? An objective one, I mean. I'm talking specifically about Latin, of course.
 

Domine

Member
I didn't know there was a way of actually measuring the closeness one language has to another. Is there a way? An objective one, I mean. I'm talking specifically about Latin, of course.
According to the studies done by Mario Pei in 1949, who compared the intonational evolution degree of the Romance languages with Latin, he concluded the following:

Sardinian: 8%;
Italian: 12%;
Spanish: 20%;
Romanian: 23.5%;
Occitan: 25%;
Portuguese: 31%;
French: 44%.

I believe Sardinian is the closest to Vulgar Latin when it comes to intonation. Although Italian and Spanish aren't that far off the chart, which is why Spanish/Italian speakers can mimic the language with ease, understand it. It's vocabulary is also pretty conservative as well as enriched with Italian and Spanish; it's verb conjugation is very close to Vulgar Latin/Spanish; it's grammar is consistent with the Romance languages.
 

Aurifex

Aedilis
Staff member
According to the studies done by Mario Pei in 1949, who compared the intonational evolution degree of the Romance languages with Latin, he concluded the following:

Sardinian: 8%;
Italian: 12%;
Spanish: 20%;
Romanian: 23.5%;
Occitan: 25%;
Portuguese: 31%;
French: 44%.

I believe Sardinian is the closest to Vulgar Latin when it comes to intonation. Although Italian and Spanish aren't that far off the chart, which is why Spanish/Italian speakers can mimic the language with ease, understand it. It's vocabulary is also pretty conservative as well as enriched with Italian and Spanish; it's verb conjugation mimics Vulgar Latin and oddly Spanish; it's grammar is consistent with the Romance languages.
But how do we know what weighting to give to each aspect, such as morphology, phonology, syntax, vocabulary? How can we quantify similarity and arrive at a reliable and objective ranking of closeness among cognate languages?
 

Domine

Member
But how do we know what weighting to give to each aspect, such as morphology, phonology, syntax, vocabulary? How can we quantify similarity and arrive at a reliable and objective ranking of closeness among cognate languages?
Comparing and contrasting which Latin derived language possesses more of what the original language had -- analyzing each tongue to its core and assessing which one holds the most in all to its mother tongue. I don't think it has been done though. I know, however, that Mario Pei studied, analyzed and assessed the phonological evolution of the Romance Languages to find similarities between them and compare it to the mother tongue, that is, Latin.

Phonology? Sardinian (nuorese/logudorese) sounds the closest to how Classical Latin / early Vulgar Latin was spoken. Note: Church Latin uses Late Vulgar Latin / Italian pronunciation. Logudorese/Nuorese (the most conservative Sardinian dialects) maintains the hard enunciation of "ce/ci" like how it was stressed in Classical Latin and early Vulgar Latin unlike the other present-day Romance languages.

Cicero (kii-ke-ro) = Classical Latin / Early Vulgar Latin
Cicero (kii-ke-ro) = Sardinian (Nuorese/Logudorese variants)
Cicero (chee-che-ron) = Italian
Cicerón (thii-the-rón) = Castilian Spanish
Cicerón (si-se-rón) = Latin-American Spanish

Syntax? Take the following as an example of syntax closely resembling Latin:

sed libera nos a malo =Latin
ma libera nos a male = Sardinian (Nuorese)
ma lìberanos dae su male = Sardinian (Logudorese)
mas líbranos de mal = Spanish
ma liberaci dal male = Italian
but deliver us from evil = English

Vocabulary? The following verb "isciri" which isn't used in any modern-day Romance language.

scio/scire = Latin
isciri = Sardinian (nuoro/logudorese)
sapere = Italian
saber = Spanish
to know = English

Note: other Romance languages have few Classical Latin verbs/words that are not used by another Romance language. For example, in Romanian they have the verb "a intelege" from Classical Latin "intellego/intellegere". Spanish/Portuguese share the verb "comer" and "ir" which is from Classical Latin "comedo/edo" and 'ii". etc.
 

Manus Correctrix

QVAE CORRIGIT
You ignored the question about objective weighting.
 

Aurifex

Aedilis
Staff member
Comparing and contrasting, simply. Which Latin derived language possesses more of what the original language had -- analyzing each tongue to its core and assessing which one holds the most in all to its mother tongue.
This was never in dispute, and is merely rephrasing my question as an answer.
I don't think it has been done though.
So it seems at present there is no conclusive answer as to which language overall is closest to Latin, which is second closest etc.
 

Domine

Member
This was never in dispute, and is merely rephrasing my question as an answer.

So it seems at present there is no conclusive answer as to which language overall is closest to Latin, which is second closest etc.
And I showed examples of why Sardinian is considered the closest to Latin. Romanian has also been said to be the closest to Latin but its history and shady evolution is a bit sketchy for me to swallow. If someone were to ask me, "which language is the closest to Latin?"I would say Sardinian.

Suffice it to say, the topic here is with regards to Sardinian and its variants closest to Latin. I wrote ab initio, "It's supposedly the closest language to Latin" because there is much heated debate as to which one is and which one isn't. In the end, all the Romance Languages are close to its mother tongue in some way or form.
 
here is a real Sardinian if you want to ask something! :)

I can say to you that Sardinian language is not the same everywhere, basically there are two dialects :

- in the north Logudorese + Nuorese, same language, with little differences about pronounces
- in the south Campidanese, it looks very different from Logudorese and Nuorese, and hard to understand, it has completely different pronounces, totally different accent, huge differences in the vocabulary, in the verbal conjugations in plurals, etc.etc.

moreover, in the extreme north of the island is spoken a variation of Corsican language, arrived in Sardinia since XVIth century, look at the map

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Sardinia_Language_Map.png

however, Sardinian is full of Latin-like expressions, words, verbs and conjugations remained identical to Latin

some example

to know - ischìre in Logudorese, from Latin "scire" pronounced "iskìre" with the guttural pronounce of classical Latin, while is "sciri" in Campidanese (pronounced "shiri")
to beat - iscùdere - from Latin "excutere"
to eat - manigare, mandigare from Latin "manducare"
to want - quèrrere - from Latin "Quaerere" (to ask, to desire)
tomorrow - cras, identical to Latin
the day after tomorrow - pustis cras, from "post cras"
yesterday - hèris, d'hèris, identical
today - hoe, from "hodie, hoc die"
this year - hoc annu, from hoc annus
here - in hoghe, from Latin "in hoc, in hoce, in hoc loco" we retained also the classical guttural pronounce
where - in ue, in uve (Logudorese-Nuorese), from "ubi,ube" - aundi (Campidanese) from "unde"
each one - per homine
worst - peus - from "peius"
more - piùs - from "plus"
few - pagu - from "paucus"
big - mannu - from "magnus"
little - minore
day - die - pl. dies
house - domo - pl. domos (domu-domus in Campidanese)
door - janna, ianna, from Latin "janua-ianua"
sheep - berbèche, berbèghe, bervèghe, birvèghe - from "vervex-vervecis" (ram)
little dog - cateddu - from "catellus"
man - homine
woman - fèmina

the articles and pronouns in Sardinian come from "ipse, ipsa ipsum", and not from "ille, illa, illud" like in all the other Romance languages

su, sa = the - plural "sos, sas" (Is in Campidanese)
issu = he - pl. issos
issa = she - pl. issas
isse = it - pl. isses

all the plurals remained like in Latin, ending with OS, ES, IS, AS, (except in Campidanese where the plurals have "US, IS, AS")

manu - manos (hand, hands)
homine - homines (homini-hominis in Campidanese)
fèmina - fèminas (woman, women)
panattèri - panattèris (baker, bakers)


some verbal conjugations

to be (essere) - so, ses, est, semus, sezis, sun
to have (hàere) - happo, has, hat, hamus, hazis, han
to do (fàghere) - fatto, fàghes, fàghet, faghìmus, faghìdes, fàghen
to see (bìdere) - bido, bìdes, bìdet, bidìmus, bidìdes, bìden
to go (andare)- ando, àndas, àndat, andàmus, andàdes, àndan
to run (currere) - curro, curres, curret, currìmus, currìdes, cùrren
to escape (fuire) - fuo, fùis, fùit, fuìmus, fuìdes, fuìn

days of the week

Lunis, Màrtis, Mèrcuris, Jòvia, Chenàpura, Sàppadu, Dominiga

it's interesting Chenàpura (Friday), from Latin "Caena Pura", the name used by Jews and first Christians for the dinner before Shabbat, pronounced "Kena Pura" using the classical pronounce, we preserved the classical guttural pronounce only in the northern Sardinian language (Logudorese-Nuorese)

for example :

caena - chena (pronounced "kena")
caelum - chelu (kelu)
cera (wax) - chera (kera)
cervus - chervu (kervu)
lucem - lughe (guttural "G" like in German) - luche (Nuorese) luxi (Campidanese) from this point of view Campidanese is totally different, they have no guttural pronounces, and they use this X which has the same pronounce of the French "J"
pacem - paghe - pache - paxi
nucem (nut) - nughe - nuche - nuxi


some phrases

This evening we go to watch a movie - Ista sero andamus a bìdere unu film
Yesterday morning I went to the doctor - Hèris manzanu so andadu dae su duttore
We are thirsty, we drink a beer bottle each one - Hamus sìdis, nos buffamus un'ampulla de birra per homine
Tomorrow I go to my uncle's house - Cras ando a domo de tiu meu
Excuse me, where can we find the major's office? - Iscusademi, in ue podimus agattare s'officiu de su sìndigu?
Excuse me, where can I find the women's toilet? - Iscusademi, in ue potto agattare su bagnu de sas feminas?
We went to eat in the town's biggest restaurant - Semus andados a manigare in su ristorante piùs mannu de sa tzittàde
I'm as tall as you - So altu que a tie
Come with me - Beni cun megus
How are you? (singular) Coment'ìstas?
How are you (plural or courtesy form) Coment'istàdes?
What's your name? Comente ti jamas? or Ite ti naras? (literally - what do you say to yourself)
How old are you? Cantos annos has / tenes?
How is the wheater? Coment'est su tempus?


bye!
 
The numbers in Sardinian language - Sos numeros in limba Sarda

1 - unu
2 - duos /duas (northern Sardinian retains both genders, like in Latin)
3 - tres
4 - bàttor
5 - chimbe
6 - ses
7 - sette
8 - otto
9 - noe
10 - deghe
11 - ùndighi, 12 - dòighi, 13 - trèighi, 14 - battòrdighi, 15 - bìndighi, 16 - sèighi, 17 - deghe e sette, 18 - deghe e otto, 19 - deghe e noe, 20 - vinti, 30 - trinta, 40 - baranta, 50 - chimbanta, 60 - sessanta, 70- settanta, 80 - ottanta, 90 - noranta, 100 - chentu

like for the number 2, the hundreds retain both genders :

200 - duchentos / duchentas, 300 - trechentos /as, 400 - battorchentos /as, 500 - chimbichentos /as, 600 - seschentos /as, 700 - settichentos /as, 800 - ottichentos /as, 900 - noichentos /as

1000 - milli, 2000 - duamiza, 3000 - tremiza, etc.etc.
 
in vulgar latin they often had the (bad) habit to abbreviate things :

from "quattuor" to qattor to battor

look at the phrase below, it's an inscription dating back to VIth century in Moselle Romance language, an extinct vulgar Latin spoken in Germany until XIth century

Hoc tetolo fecet Montana, conlux sua, Mauricio, qui vi sit con elo annus dodece; et portauit annus qarranta; trasit die VIII K(a)l(endas) Iunias.

look at the word "qarranta" (40), it matches perfectly with the Sardinian "baranta"

in the evolution of Sardinian it seems that at a certain point the Q or sometimes also the G became a B, a similar thing also happens in Romanian language

quinquem -> chimbe
lingua -> limba (northern Sardinian) limba (Romanian)
aqua -> abba (northern Sardinian) apa (Romanian)
equa (female horse) - ebba (northern Sardinian) iapa (Romanian)
 
beati Hispani quibus vivere est bibere
:D

not to mention betacism :D

a lot of words that in Latin began with V in Sardinian have a B

videre - bidere (to see)
vitrum - bidru (glass)
viridem - birde (green)
vocem - boghe
vacca - bacca (cow)
ventus - bentu (wind)
vena - bena (source)
vetus - betzu (old)
(in a Roman archaeological site of Sardinia has been found an inscription with "betus" instead of "vetus", it seems to be an ancient habit :D )

exceptions

vita - vida
vivere - vivere
veritas - veridade

etc.etc.
 
The Pater Noster, in Latin and Sardinian language

Pater Noster qui es in cælis
sanctificétur nomen tuum;
advéniat regnum tuum;
fiat volúntas tua,
sicut in cælo, et in terra.
Panem nostrum cotidianum
da nobis hódie;
et dimítte nobis débita nostra,
sicut et nos
dimíttimus debitóribus nostris;
et ne nos indúcas in tentatiónem;
sed líbera nos a malo.
Amen.

Babbu nostru qui ìstas in sos chelos
santificadu sìet su nomene tou;
bènzat a nois su regnu tou;
fatta sìet sa voluntade tua,
comente in su chelu, gai in sa terra.
Da nos hoe;
su pane nostru de ogni die,
perdona nos sos peccados nostros,
comente nois
los perdonamus a sos inimigos nostros;
e no nos lasses a rùere in tentazione;
ma libera nos dae su male.
Amen
 
other Latin-like expressions

nowhere / anywhere - in/a logu per unu, abbreviated form "in/a logu" - from Latin "vel unus" (none, no one)
examples :
- I couldn't find you anywhere - No t'happo agattadu in logu per unu / in logu (verb Agattare / Acciappare from Latin "Ad Captare", same root of the French "Acheter")
- Where are you going? nowhere - A in ue ses andende? a logu per unu / a logu

everywhere - per issu logu, or "in/a tot'ue"
examples :
- I searched you everywhere - T'happo chircadu per issu logu / in tot'ue
- I worked everywhere - happo tribagliadu in tot'ue
- I went everywhere - so andadu a tot'ue

there are (generic) - bi sun - literally translated in Latin "ibi sunt"
example : there are two dogs on the road - bi sun duos canes in carrela

there are (right here) - che sun (pronounced "ke sun") - from Latin "ecce-hic or hicce"
example : there are (right here) two men at the door - che sun duos homines in sa janna

in front of - in anti, a ojos (pronounced "a oyos")
behind - in segus
with me - cun megus - Latin "mecum"
with you - cun tegus - Latin "tecum"
with it - cun isse
together - cum pare, 'um pare
all togheter, all at once - totu paris
examples :
- We went to the cinema all together - Semus andados a su cinema totu paris
- Don't drink that beer all at once - No buffes cussa birra tota paris
 
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