News (Languages) Sardinian
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Surviving genitives in Sardinian language
In Sardinian language there is a specific class of adjectives which seem to be related to 2nd declension genitives, all of these adjectives are about phisical features like : white haired, black haired, etc.etc.
for example, in Latin hair is "capillus, capilli", in Sardinian is "pilu", but in this kind of adjectives becomes "pili"
white haired = pili canu -> in Latin should be "capilli canum"
white haired = pili alvu -> capilli album
black haired = pili nieddu -> capilli nigellum
red haired = pili ruju -> capilli rubrum
long haired = pili longu -> capilli longum
short haired = pili muzzu -> capilli mutilum
fat bottomed = culi mannu, manna -> culi magnum, magnam
moreover the adjective "canu" is not directly related to "hair" but to the phrase subject, the man; this becomes clearer if I put the adjective in a phrase and if I change it from masculine to feminine
- that man is white haired = cuss'homine est pili canu
- that woman is white haired = cussa femina est pili cana
as we can see the adjective becomes feminine according to the phrase subject, a literal translation should be : that man is white of hair; that woman is white of hair
Another peculiarity of these adjectives is that the nouns that precede the adjective acquire the -I ending typical of 2nd declension genitive, even if in origin they didn't belong to 2nd declension
examples :
anca (leg) -> anchi longa, anchi longu (long legged)
anca -> anchi torta, anchi tortu (bandy legged)
conca (head) -> conchi tostu (literally "hard headed"; synonymous of "stubborn")
limba (tongue) -> limbi longu (literally "long tongued" ; gossipy person)
pé (foot) -> pei mannu (big footed)
matta (belly) -> matti tundu (round bellied)
pala (shoulder) -> pali mannu (big shouldered)
pala -> pali minore (little shouldered)
saludos! nos intendimus
In Sardinian language there is a specific class of adjectives which seem to be related to 2nd declension genitives, all of these adjectives are about phisical features like : white haired, black haired, etc.etc.
for example, in Latin hair is "capillus, capilli", in Sardinian is "pilu", but in this kind of adjectives becomes "pili"
white haired = pili canu -> in Latin should be "capilli canum"
white haired = pili alvu -> capilli album
black haired = pili nieddu -> capilli nigellum
red haired = pili ruju -> capilli rubrum
long haired = pili longu -> capilli longum
short haired = pili muzzu -> capilli mutilum
fat bottomed = culi mannu, manna -> culi magnum, magnam
moreover the adjective "canu" is not directly related to "hair" but to the phrase subject, the man; this becomes clearer if I put the adjective in a phrase and if I change it from masculine to feminine
- that man is white haired = cuss'homine est pili canu
- that woman is white haired = cussa femina est pili cana
as we can see the adjective becomes feminine according to the phrase subject, a literal translation should be : that man is white of hair; that woman is white of hair
Another peculiarity of these adjectives is that the nouns that precede the adjective acquire the -I ending typical of 2nd declension genitive, even if in origin they didn't belong to 2nd declension
examples :
anca (leg) -> anchi longa, anchi longu (long legged)
anca -> anchi torta, anchi tortu (bandy legged)
conca (head) -> conchi tostu (literally "hard headed"; synonymous of "stubborn")
limba (tongue) -> limbi longu (literally "long tongued" ; gossipy person)
pé (foot) -> pei mannu (big footed)
matta (belly) -> matti tundu (round bellied)
pala (shoulder) -> pali mannu (big shouldered)
pala -> pali minore (little shouldered)
saludos! nos intendimus
Apparently you're not aware that pilus is also a word for 'hair' in Latin (properly 'a hair').
oops I didn't know it, my Latin is a bit rusty
Hello again, everyone!
I have been in a long hiatus. I hope to contribute back to this forum on an occasional basis. I'll leave you here with these two audio clips of the Sardinian variant "Nuoro" which is my favorite intonation from all of Sardinia -- it has the clearest intonation. The aforementioned variant is also the closest to Latin, by the way. Other Sardinian variants sound more like Italian from Sicily or like Portuguese for some reason, probably due to the Catalan/French influences.
I have been in a long hiatus. I hope to contribute back to this forum on an occasional basis. I'll leave you here with these two audio clips of the Sardinian variant "Nuoro" which is my favorite intonation from all of Sardinia -- it has the clearest intonation. The aforementioned variant is also the closest to Latin, by the way. Other Sardinian variants sound more like Italian from Sicily or like Portuguese for some reason, probably due to the Catalan/French influences.
Hi again!
Thanks Domine for your contribution. The Sardinian variant named Nuorese (in Italian) or Nugoresu (in Sardinian), is indeed the most conservative of the island.
I think that the variant you mentioned who sounds like Italian from Sicily is the Gallurese, the language spoken in the north east corner of the island. Technically Gallurese is not Sardinian, it's a dialect arrived from Corsica after XVth century. Curiously the southern Corsican language has many aspects in common with Sicilian and also with southern Sardinian (for example, nouns derived from Latin nominatives instead from accusatives).
The proper Sardinian is formed by two variants, we have basically two different Sardinian languages :
Thanks Domine for your contribution. The Sardinian variant named Nuorese (in Italian) or Nugoresu (in Sardinian), is indeed the most conservative of the island.
I think that the variant you mentioned who sounds like Italian from Sicily is the Gallurese, the language spoken in the north east corner of the island. Technically Gallurese is not Sardinian, it's a dialect arrived from Corsica after XVth century. Curiously the southern Corsican language has many aspects in common with Sicilian and also with southern Sardinian (for example, nouns derived from Latin nominatives instead from accusatives).
The proper Sardinian is formed by two variants, we have basically two different Sardinian languages :
- in the center-north of the island : Logudorese - Nuorese (Logudoresu, Nugoresu), it's the same identical language with few different pronounces; each one perfectly understands the other without difficulties.
- in the south of the island : Campidanese (Campidanesu), compared to the above mentioned is like another language, with very complex phonetics, highly variable vowels, while Logudorese-Nuorese have only 5 vowels; Campidanese has also a lot of nasal pronounces quite similar to Portuguese or French. These features along with a very different accent and a quite different vocabulary make Campidanese really hard to understand for a Logudorese - Nuorese speaker.
Interesting! I wasn't aware of the Corsican influence sounding similar to Sicilian. Languages are an interesting bunch, as they crossover by mere coincidence or by direct influence. I know, for example, in Sardinian they say, "abba / s'abba" (water) which in Romanian they also say this. I've noticed a little French influences in some of the Sardinian variants, too.
I recently did 23 and Me DNA analysis, I found out that I am 1% Sardinian and 20% Italian/Greek. I would have never known with certainty unless I did this. Apparently, Sardinian DNA is somewhat rare among Mexicans from I've seen. It's also one of the most ancient DNA in all of Europe alongside Basque DNA. Needless to say, I always knew I had Southern European in me as I look like my El Greco avatar.
Saludos desde California. Nos oímos otro día.
¿Sabes? Entiendo el Cerdeño/Sardo más que el Italiano a veces. Para mí, como mexicano-americano al oír el Sardo es como oír alguién mezclar el italiano con el español.
Su Sardu est una limba Romanza unu pagu particulare, no appartenit ne a su gruppu Occidentale, e ne a su gruppu Italicu-Orientale de sas limbas Romanzas, est in mesu, ind'unu gruppu totu sou (gruppu Insulare), cun caratteristicas similes ad ambos àteros gruppos, ma puru cun caratteristicas suas unicas. Bi sun in sa limba Sarda cosas medas e solutziones evolutivas similes a s'Hispagnolu, Portuguesu, Catalanu, o Frantzesu; e àteras cosas similes a s'Italianu, e curiosamente puru a su Rumenu. Su vocabulariu de su Sardu invece resultat essere meda arcaicu si lu cunfrontamus a sos vocabularios de sas àteras limbas Romanzas, bi sun medas arcaismos qui vìven ancora in su Sardu e qui sun isparidos dae sas àteras limbas dae nessi milli annos.
esempios de arcaismos :
Latinu - Sardu
Domus - Domo (house)
Janua - Janna (door)
Cito - Chito (soon, early)
Cras - Cras (tomorrow)
Heri - Hèris, d'Hèris (yesterday)
Hodie - Hoe (today)
Hoc Annus - Hoc Annu (this year)
Etiam - Eja (yes)
Immo - Emmo (yes)
Tandem - Tando (then)
Magnus - Mannu (big)
Minorem - Minore (little)
Hominem - Homine (man)
Foemina - Femina (woman)
Pisinnus - Pitzinnu (child)
Pronuntzias Classicas : Ch = K - G = GH
Latinu - Sardu
Coelum - Chelu (sky)
Coena - Chena (dinner)
Cera - Chera (wax)
Cito - Chito (soon, early)
Piscem - Pische (fish)
Lingere - Lìnghere (to lick)
Tingere - Tìnghere (to paint)
Mulgere - Mùlghere (to milk)
Adstringere - Astringhere (to tighten)
Domus - Domo (house)
Janua - Janna (door)
Cito - Chito (soon, early)
Cras - Cras (tomorrow)
Heri - Hèris, d'Hèris (yesterday)
Hodie - Hoe (today)
Hoc Annus - Hoc Annu (this year)
Etiam - Eja (yes)
Immo - Emmo (yes)
Tandem - Tando (then)
Magnus - Mannu (big)
Minorem - Minore (little)
Hominem - Homine (man)
Foemina - Femina (woman)
Pisinnus - Pitzinnu (child)
Pronuntzias Classicas : Ch = K - G = GH
Latinu - Sardu
Coelum - Chelu (sky)
Coena - Chena (dinner)
Cera - Chera (wax)
Cito - Chito (soon, early)
Piscem - Pische (fish)
Lingere - Lìnghere (to lick)
Tingere - Tìnghere (to paint)
Mulgere - Mùlghere (to milk)
Adstringere - Astringhere (to tighten)
Saludos dae Sardigna! A nos intendere
Hey!
I was able to understand the following from your Sardinian paragraph. I am fluent Spanish speaker, ditto English. I know Italian somewhat as well as studied Latin. So, I have a bit of an advantage but I was able to grasp about 70% of what you were saying.
El Sardo es una lengua romance un poco particular, no ***** ni al grupo Occidental y ni al grupo Itálico-Oriental de las lenguas romances. ************, en un grupo totalmente sólo (grupo insular), con características similares/símiles con los otros grupos, pero **** con sus características únicas. **** son en la lengua Sarda cosas *** y soluciones evolucionarias parecidas al Español, Portugues, Catalán, o Francés; y otras cosas parecidas al italiano, y curiosamente **** al Rumano.
El vocabulario del Sardo a veces resulta ser muy?/medio? arcaíco si lo comparamos con el vocabulario de las otras lenguas romances. *** son muy?/medio arcaísmos que viven aún en el Sardo y que son inspirados por las otras lenguas por ya miles de años.
Spanish (along with Portuguese on some) still uses Latin words/verbs that other MAINSTREAM Romance languages don't use anymore.
Latin = Spanish = English
Harena = Arena = Sand
Caseus = Queso = Cheese
Mensa = Mesa = Table
Sella = Silla = Chair
Adhuc = Aún = Still
Numquam = Nunca = Never
Audi/Audire = Oír = To hear
Edo/Edere = Comer = To Eat
Ii / Ire = Ir = To go
Hodie = Hoy/Hoy día = Today
Dies = Día = Day
Bonus Dies = Buenos Días = Good day
etc.
Spanish also has Latin neologisms that were reintroduced like:
Magno/magna. Pronounced as "mag-no".
Fémina. Pronounced as "Fé-mina"
etc.
Saludos de nuevo desde California. Espero que estés bien amigo.
I see that you understood almost everything with just few mistakes or omissions :
Making a comparison with your list :
Latin = Spanish = English = Sardinian
Harena = Arena = Sand = Rena
Caseus = Queso = Cheese = Casu
Mensa = Mesa = Table = Mesa / Tàula / Banca (Latin "Tabula", while Banca is similar to the Italian "Banco" = desk; to English "bench")
Sella = Silla = Chair = Cadréa (north Sardinia) Cadíra (s. Sardinia) - (from Cathedra; while derived from Sella we have "Sedda" = saddle)
Adhuc = Aún = Still = Ancóra
Numquam = Nunca = Never = Mai
Audi/Audire = Oír = To hear = Intendere
Edo/Edere = Comer = To Eat = Mandicare, Mandigare, Manigare (Latin "Manducare")
Ii / Ire = Ir = To go = Andare
Hodie = Hoy/Hoy día = Today = Hoe / In die de hoe (nowadays)
Dies = Día = Day = Die
Bonus Dies = Buenos Días = Good day = Bona Die
Comente podes bìdere su Sardu no est una limba diffitzile pro unu qui connòschet ià àter'una limba Romanza (o puru duas) o su Latinu.
Saludos! A nos intendere luego
appartenit = belongs
est in mesu = it's in the middle (Greek "Mesos")
sou = his, its
totu sou = all his own
ambos = both
puru = also, too
bi sun = there are (Latin "ibi sunt")
meda = much, many (in the Middle Ages it was written as "Meta")
cosas medas = many things
isparidos = disappeared
nessi = at least
est in mesu = it's in the middle (Greek "Mesos")
sou = his, its
totu sou = all his own
ambos = both
puru = also, too
bi sun = there are (Latin "ibi sunt")
meda = much, many (in the Middle Ages it was written as "Meta")
cosas medas = many things
isparidos = disappeared
nessi = at least
Making a comparison with your list :
Latin = Spanish = English = Sardinian
Harena = Arena = Sand = Rena
Caseus = Queso = Cheese = Casu
Mensa = Mesa = Table = Mesa / Tàula / Banca (Latin "Tabula", while Banca is similar to the Italian "Banco" = desk; to English "bench")
Sella = Silla = Chair = Cadréa (north Sardinia) Cadíra (s. Sardinia) - (from Cathedra; while derived from Sella we have "Sedda" = saddle)
Adhuc = Aún = Still = Ancóra
Numquam = Nunca = Never = Mai
Audi/Audire = Oír = To hear = Intendere
Edo/Edere = Comer = To Eat = Mandicare, Mandigare, Manigare (Latin "Manducare")
Ii / Ire = Ir = To go = Andare
Hodie = Hoy/Hoy día = Today = Hoe / In die de hoe (nowadays)
Dies = Día = Day = Die
Bonus Dies = Buenos Días = Good day = Bona Die
Comente podes bìdere su Sardu no est una limba diffitzile pro unu qui connòschet ià àter'una limba Romanza (o puru duas) o su Latinu.
Saludos! A nos intendere luego
Ah, now it makes sense! Somehow I missed "ambos" as we also use this word in Spanish. I knew "mesu" had to do something with "medio" which is why I previously wrote down medio/muy. Sardinian "isparidos" seems to come from Spanish "desaparecidos". I am able now to see why "totu sou" means "todo suyo" AND "est in mesu" means "está en el medio".
"Comente podes bìdere su Sardu no est una limba diffitzile pro unu qui connòschet ià àter'una limba Romanza (o puru duas) o su Latinu."
Como puedes ver el Sardo no es una lengua difícil porque uno conoce ya otra lengua romana (o también dos) o el Latín.
I wouldn't assume that. Straight from Proto-Romance (''Vulgar Latin'') *disparitos, I'd say. The Spanish one reflects *disapparescitos.
Spanish had about 300 years of influence in Sardinia. I think it could be either one -- quite honestly.
On phonological grounds it is extremely unlikely. For example the Sardinian one even retains Latin's ĭ as an /i/ as opposed to the /e/ in Spanish. Also the Spanish one has an originally inchoative element that's completely absent from the Sardinian one.
There are many loanwords from Spanish and from Catalan, but in this case I agree with Imperfacundus
Italian uses the same verb as "sparire"; I was inclined to think that the Sardinian counterpart was a variant of "sparire", since in Sardinian we make great use of these prosthetic vowels.
sparire -> isparire
schola -> iscola
stella -> istella
sperantia -> isperantzia
scire -> ischire (to know)
stare -> istare (to stay)
In many situations when a Latin verb began with EX in Sardinian evolved to IS or ES
exire -> essire (to exit)
excitare -> ischidare (to wake up)
excutere (to shake) -> iscudere (to beat)
extutare -> istudare (to turn off)
explicare (to explain) -> ispricare (the action of talking)
extersus (the action of cleaning) -> faghere s'isterzu (to wash the dishes) -> isterzu has become a synonymous of dish or container
Spanish also has this tendency. I think French does, too.
Latin = Spanish
Sperare = esperar
Schola = escuela
Stella = estrella
Sperantia = esperanza
etc.
When it comes to the Latin prefix EX, in Spanish it's mostly kept.
Explicare = explicar
Exitus = Éxito
Extendo =Extender
etc.
As a matter of fact, Spanish DID influence phonetically certain Sardinian variants. As it also did with certain Sicilian variants. 300 years does this to any language.
See the following: https://www2.hu-berlin.de/vivaldi/?id=m2059&lang=it
The fact that Spanish influenced some Sardinian variants doesn't mean that this specific word has to come from it.
I see. Sardinian dialects sometimes delete initial consonants (example) so that's why I figure that isparidos comes from *disparitos. But your explanation makes sense as well, especially considering the data that you have provided.
Note that the s in Italian sparire actually comes from an older es, reflecting original *ex. The explanation for its disappearance is that Old Italian had variants of words with and without prosthetic vowels, such as sposa and isposa. Later all examples like isposa were replaced by non-prosthetic variants, but by analogy words with initial (non-prosthetic) es + consonant were replaced by new variants without the vowel, hence for example modern Italian stimare from an older estimare.
I notice that in your examples in every case where an original ex came before a consonant it ended up as is rather than the expected es. If that's always true, I propose that, like in Italian, /e/ in such environments was associated with the prosthetic i-. Unlike the case in Italian, es- simply merged with is- instead of being deleted along with it.