Scutum videlicet militare erectum, caelestini coloris...

[Judithpm]

Hi everybody,

I do not understand latin and I would like to understand what means this text :

Scutum videlicet militare erectum, caelestini coloris, fundum illius viridi campo occupante, super quo leo praestanti mole erectus posterioribus divaricatis pedibus et medio tenus sanguine conspersus cauda erecta bifurcata, ore hianti lingua rubicunda experta, sinistro ad rapiendum protenso, dextre vero pedul frameam uibrare ac in dextrum scuti latus conversus esse visitur, Scuto incum bentem galeam militarem eraticulatam Regio diademate, ex eoque inter duas nigras aquilinos alas brachium humanum ferro indutum vola ensem tenere proferente ornatam.

A summitate cono galea laciniis seu lemniscis hinc flavis et proferente ornatam, illime autem candidis et rubris in scuti extremitates sese pafsim diffundentibus scutumque ipsum decenter ex ornantibus, quemadmodum sale omnia in principio seu capite prasentium literarum nostrarum pictoris manu et artificio propriis suis coloribus clarius depicta esse conspiciuntur.

Attached to this message, please find the original document !

Google Translation helps a friend of mine and me to understand globaly what it is described (a blazon with a lion etc..) but in detail we have some doubts : is there a star? how many tail does the lion have ? How many hill there is ? is there a crown under the lion ?

Thank you so much for your help !

 

[cinefactus]

Can I ask where this came from It doesn't seem to be British, and I can't understand some of it. No star, one rock or possibly hill, bifid tail. The crown is on the helmet, which I presume is laid on top of the shield.

 

[Judithpm]

Hi,
It's a hungarian document, actually a transcript of a patent letter. Are you able to understand if the lion have its tongue and/or its claws red, and which weapon the lion has in its hand ?

 

[cinefactus]

There is nothing about the claws, the tongue is red and it is brandishing a spear.

Is there not a drawing of the device? The letter suggests that there is.

 

[Dantius]

Scutum videlicet militare erectum, caelestini coloris, fundum illius viridi campo occupante, super quo leo praestanti mole erectus posterioribus divaricatis pedibus et medio tenus sanguine conspersus cauda erecta bifurcata, ore hianti lingua rubicunda experta

According to this passage,
the shield is blue (the color of the sky), there's a green field at the bottom of the shield, and above that there's a lion of extraordinary strength standing up, with its posterior feet spread out, and it is covered in blood up to the middle, with a two-pronged tail upright/standing. It has an open mouth and a red tongue.

 

[Dantius]

After that point, "pedul" doesn't make much sense, but I can't read the original manuscript to figure out what it might actually be.

 

[Dantius]

The lion seems to be brandishing a spear in its right foot.

 

[Judithpm]

Thank you for these new elements!

and it is covered in blood up to the middle

That is very uncommon to have a lion with two different colors (I mean, by default color for the second part of the body is yellow/gold). Which part of the latin text specially talks about this division ?

 

[AoM]

That is very uncommon to have a lion with two different colors (I mean, by default color for the second part of the body is yellow/gold). Which part of the latin text specially talks about this division ?

'et medio tenus sanguine conspersus'

 

[cinefactus]

That is very uncommon to have a lion with two different colors (I mean, by default color for the second part of the body is yellow/gold). Which part of the latin text specially talks about this division ?

If you took at Bodleian Ms Lat misc.e.86 29v you can see a lion divided in this way. In this case, however, I think this is bespattered with drops of blood to its middle.

pedul is actually pedis, but I can't quite figure out the grammar.

...stretched out to the left to seize, shaking a spear with its right paw and is turned to the right side of the shield, a military helmet leaning upon the shield ?crowned with the crown of a king (Regis) from which between two black eagles (aquilinas) wings, a human arm clothed in iron holding a ornate sword with ? extended

 

[cinefactus]

What I get from the description is: a lion statant regardant langued gules shaking a spear with its right paw

caelestini (sky blue) would be a very unusual word for blue in British heraldry. Hungary may use different colours though. There was a fashion in the 1700s (I think) for arms to be painted like a picture.

 

[Judithpm]

Thank you so much for these translations.

One more thing about this "drops of bllod to its middle". Should it be possible this specification was for the weapon and not for lion ? Because we have some reproduction of this COA, all have a sword instead of a spear but this coat of arms, atteched to this message, have blood in the weapon.

Clearly it depends of latin text.. if the latin text is clear about the fact it is the lion which is half-red, and not the weapon ?

 

[Imperfacundus]

What I get from the description is: a lion statant regardant langued gules shaking a spear with its right paw

It's like you switched languages in the middle of the sentence. That was a strange feeling.

 

[cinefactus]

It's like you switched languages in the middle of the sentence. That was a strange feeling.

sorry, forgot queue fourché

The description has the lion bloodied, carrying a spear. Perhaps they mixed it up with the sword in the hand in the crest? Although what is depicted is a scimitar. I would have thought that the description is of a straight sword.

 

[Judithpm]

What I get from the description is: a lion statant regardant langued gules shaking a spear with its right paw

It seems to be french lol

About the Crest, is the latin text mention a straight sword, a curved sword or a spear ?

 

[cinefactus]

I checked framea in Niermeyer. It looks like in mediaeval usage it can mean sword, so perhaps the lion is bearing a sword. The type of sword in the crest is not specified, which would suggest a straight sword, although I don't know about specific Hungarian usage..

I have no experience of Hungarian heraldry though, so I could be incorrect but: The blazon seems very strange to me, as usually the language is quite formulaic. This, however, sounds more like a description by someone who isn't a herald. Originally I thought that in dextrum scuti latus conversus esse visitur was implying that the lion was looking backwards over its shoulder, but that should be to the left side of the shield (right from the viewer's point of view) unless the lion was facing the other way, which should be specified as it is unusual. So maybe it is just a strange way of describing a lion statant (which is what you have in your picture).

It would make more sense for the sword to be bloodied than the lion, but that isn't what the description says.

 

[Judithpm]

You're absolutely right. All representations of this COA shows a sword in the paw of the lion and I've check latin dictionary too and it's seems the original sense of framea was spear but the general sense was sword.

Actually I didn't find digital version of Niermeyer's book. Do you have it ? If yes, could you scan or take a picture of the sheet ? Some members of my family will be crazy seeing that

Thank you very much!

 

[cinefactus]

https://linguaeterna.com/medlat/list.php?letter=F

 

[Judithpm]

Thank you so much for your help !

I'm going to communicate those translations to my family and I'll come back to tell you if I have some news about this story about sword/spear etc..

One more time, thank you!