Stuck With Latin, Any Advice?

[P. Lavinius Denimus]

Salvete,

Alright, so this is the situation that I am in with Latin. I took one year of it in high school, but that was all that I was offered and so I continued to study on my own. I go through ups and downs with it, since I lack people to practice it with and talk to about it, which has created a complicated spot where I know more grammar than I do vocabulary. I try to push through text books but I cant stand the repetitive excesses, they become dull.

When I start back up after going through an off period, I obviously find that I lose much of what I had learned. I get the grammar back easily enough after I start using it again but the vocabulary needs to be relearned. Does anyone have advice for learning a lot of vocabulary without having to complete dull text book exercises?

 

[Ignis Umbra]

One activity I strongly recommend is reading actual Latin (e.g. Tacitus, Cicero, Caesar, etc.). I can't tell you how many new words and grammatical constructions I've learned from reading alone. As far as vocabulary is concerned, simply practice writing in Latin and try to integrate some of the knowledge you've gained to ensure that you fully understand the concepts.
Another handy tool all Latin scholars should have is a dictionary. If you encounter a word you're unfamiliar with, simply whip out your dictionary and look up the word. I use L&S, an online dictionary. Although it can sometimes be misleading, its vocabulary bank is quite extensive, and it lists all the information regarding a word.

 

[Nikolaos]

Ah, I know that problem. That's how I study languages as well - I accumulate grammar at the expense of vocabulary.

Dull textbook exercises are one effective way to build a vocabulary. But, there are a few others. In particular, I recommend laboring your way through some real Latin, whether it is Classical (Caesar, Vergil, and Cicero are the triumvirate of Classical Latin) or Ecclesiastical (the various Vulgates are easy to read). I personally recommend picking up Wheelock's Latin Reader to get broad exposure to various authors. You should also buy a cheap dictionary; I use Traupman's dictionary.

Use these tools in conjunction with a Latin community *cough*LatinDiscussion*cough* to learn new vocabulary, idioms, and grammar. Whenever you're stumped, ask us for help.

 

[LVXORD]

where I know more grammar than I do vocabulary.

HAHA! This is me with all my languages! It's tough. The best thing you can do is try to find a means to talk about Latin with someone (such as this forum! )

Does anyone have advice for learning a lot of vocabulary without having to complete dull text book exercises?

The best way to learn a language is generally by learning the grammar (generally through exercises) and practicing it through communication. Though no one speaks Latin natively, it can be good practice to communicate in Latin. On this forum, there's (as you probably know) a section where one can communicate primarily in Latin (the Speak Latin section). Whilst you won't be able to completely stop doing the textbook exercises. You can strengthen your knowledge through communication or maybe even through writing stories (which is quite an enjoyable practice).

 

[P. Lavinius Denimus]

I have dozens of books that are textbook style, as well as dozens of books by classical Latin authors in the classical Latin. I also have several different Latin dictionaries. I am in no way lacking material, just to through that information out there. I have spent the greater part of two years collecting everything and anything related to Latin and Ancient Greek.

When I go to read original Latin works, I find that I know too few words to make it very far in any reasonable amount of time. Conversely, I know enough grammar that using textbook style resources becomes boring and not at all interesting until far later in, and I don't usually get that far in any individual book. That said, if I have to run through textbook type stuff I am willing to. Less so with attempting original Latin authors (I attempted this as well, and found it took me an extreme amount of time to make it insignificantly far.), but again I am also definitely willing to push through.

I am definitely looking forward to probing this site with questions and for practice. I guess I just feel like im caught in this nexus where I know enough in one way and know to little in another at one time, and was looking for an easy way out with the problem of vocabulary. I should have guessed that no such way exists, it rarely ever does.

Multas gratias vobis ago.

 

[LVXORD]

What would your skill level be? Have you tried Caesar's De bello Gallico? It starts out pretty easy at first and thus, it is the first 'real Latin' text that most students translate.

 

[P. Lavinius Denimus]

I am not sure where my skill level is. I wouldn't say that it is high, but it is also not remedial. I took a Latin class for one year, and then studied on my own after that, on and off for about a year and a half. Much to my dismay, I did not study in any organized or coherent way. I believe I own a copy of De Bello Gallico Caesaris, and if I recall correctly I went through the first few pages of it while I was taking Latin, but it had grammar I hadn't yet encountered. Perhaps I will take a look at that again, thanks for that tip.

 

[LVXORD]

I am not sure where my skill level is. I wouldn't say that it is high, but it is also not remedial. I took a Latin class for one year, and then studied on my own after that, on and off for about a year and a half. Much to my dismay, I did not study in any organized or coherent way. I believe I own a copy of De Bello Gallico Caesaris, and if I recall correctly I went through the first few pages of it while I was taking Latin, but it had grammar I hadn't yet encountered. Perhaps I will take a look at that again, thanks for that tip.

I certainly recommend that you do!

 

[Lyceum]

Ok this is actually pretty common for a lot of new students I've found. They've worked through grammatical exercises but find they can't read.

First off I'd say that you can't actually assess how well you know the grammar until you're able to read anyway. You need to be able to differentiate forms and grasp subtleties in meaning in real time when you read, so memorising forms is a very small part of that. You need to see lots and lots of Latin in its natural environment. Whatever you do make sure you keep reviewing grammar and syntax until it becomes better than second nature to you. Use this point in your level to get composition exercises in. It will solidify concepts to you and aid reading.

Ok now to the serious matter, the vocabulary. This is a sore point for many. What you need to hit is the statistical sweet spot where you have enough words to read texts fluently with minimal dictionary work but not having spent too much time on vocab lists.

Usually your teacher should have furnished you with the most common 2000 or so Latin words which will give you 80-95% of any given text, which is enough to start reading. I know in modern times people really don't like sitting down and grinding but believe me its much quicker to go through a list a few times and then be able to read than it is too repeatedly struggle.

You can find frequency lists anywhere however http://hiberna-cr.wikidot.com/latin-resources is one of the best sites on Latin on the internet and he's done all the hard work for you, if you don't like the format just search "Latin Frequency lists" or something.

Once you've memorised as much of that list as possible you start by practising on texts. It doesn't matter what texts. Texts edited to have grammar/vocab help will be easier than those without but the overall difference is minimal. Just try and read 15-45 mins per day. After 3/4 weeks there will be a massive difference.

Also speaking out loud as you read will force your brain to actually pay attention to the words and remember even the small differences.

I'm new here, but it seems people will bend over backwards to help people learn Latin. Which is good but for best results you need to put in the grind first.

 

[Abbatiſſæ Scriptor]

Reciting Matins and Vespers every day untill I knew the canticles from memory taught me most of what I know.

 

[Tom]

There is a fantastic translation of the Rule of St. Benedict (ISBN: 978-0814623251) that provides both the English and Latin with a line by line commentary of the English. The commentary is mostly substantive, but the author sometimes discusses grammatical construction and translation. Given that it is broken down into small chapters it's easy to work through in manageable chunks.

 

[P. Lavinius Denimus]

@Everyone: Thank you all for the advice, I have gotten my younger brother and one of his friends to agree to learn Latin with me, we are going to pick one of my textbooks to go through. You were all very helpful and I will be lingering around here and search through the forum and familiarize myself with it.

Ignis Umbra: I saw your post on my introduction and you were spot on with what I was attempting to say, thank you for the corrections.

Valete omnes!

 

[Ignis Umbra]

No problem. That's another thing. Errors are inevitable in your beginning stages of learning Latin (or in your case relearning it), and I would say that they are one of the most influential aspects of learning anything. If you are unaware that you're writing ungrammatical/unidiomatic language, how can you get better?

 

[MagisterT]

This is coming way after the fact, but there is a guy who teaches SPOKEN LATIN via Skype from Italy. He uses the Oerberg texts: Lingua Latina per se Illustrata and Roma Aeterna. If you are looking to SPEAK Latin, this is undoubtedly the way to proceed. Here is an example of him teaching a young boy who is now almost entirely fluent and fully conversant in Latin.

 

[electrotechnica]

Perhaps you would benefit from a structured learning environment like a class. Done correctly, they provide a learning community, which might help you. Maybe you could attend one of the spoken Latin conventions people are setting up these days.

 

[limetrees]

@Everyone: Thank you all for the advice, I have gotten my younger brother and one of his friends to agree to learn Latin with me, we are going to pick one of my textbooks to go through. You were all very helpful and I will be lingering around here and search through the forum and familiarize myself with it.

Ignis Umbra: I saw your post on my introduction and you were spot on with what I was attempting to say, thank you for the corrections.

Valete omnes!

I hope it's going well, but two suggestions for activities which help me:
1: find a book of excerpts from real texts, but chosen for school level, so that it's not too hard and read a passage very day - just use a simple dictionary - with no access to any translation. And then, the following day, do a new passage away from the computer and look up the translation online of any part of the passage of the previous day's text you didn't figure out.

2. Find some obscure text online, it really doesn't matter what, that hasn't been translated, and translate it - find them by just googling in some words and see what you find - some religious thing or science or philosophy. It'll have to be medieval/ early modern since all the Roman stuff has been translated (I think!)
One suggestion here is that you try to pick a short text, so that you can have the buzz of finishing it - maybe try putting "epistola" or "epistolam tuam" or such as your search term, and you can translate a medieval / Early Modern letter (or a set of them). Then who knows - send it off to be published somewhere - or just put it (and the latin original) on your blog.
If you’re into Rome, for example, try to find a early modern traveller’s account of Rome, or whatever! You could find something really super.
This gives a real buzz of being the one guy who works out what is going on in a text!!!, not just another guy reading Cicero and then looking up some other guy’s translation.

It will be slow to start, but once you get into an author's style, you'll get going: the only problem is that it may end up keeping you up late - it's way more fun than gaming.

 

[electrotechnica]

Well, I've now taken my own advice and signed up for a class .