The Death of Laocoon....and Troy (second part)

john abshire

Well-Known Member
Quod Laocoon in equum Minervae hastam iecerat; nos putavimus eum erravisse et poenas dedisse; veritatem acerbam nescivimus. Portas patefacimus et admittimus istum equum in urbem; ac pueri puellaeque-O patria, O di magni, O Troia!- eum tangere gaudent. Et quoque gaudemus nos miseri, quibus ille dies fuit ultimus ac quibus numquam erit ullam solacium.

Because Laocoon had thrown a spear into the horse of Minerva, we thought he had erred and paid a penalty; we did not know the bitter truth. We opened the gates and admitted that horse into the city; and boys and girls- O homeland, O great gods, O Troy! they rejoice to touch him. And we also rejoice to whom that was the last day and to whom there will never be any solace.

please review my translation.
In particular, the last sentence. I can’t figure out what to do with “nos miseri”.

edits in bold red
 
Last edited:

Bestiola

Sciura Tigrina Croatica
Staff member
Quod Laocoon in equum Minervae hastam iecerat; nos putavimus eum erravisse et poenas dedisse; veritatem acerbam nescivimus. Portas patefacimus et admittimus istum equum in urbem; ac pueri puellaeque-O patria, O di magni, O Troia!- eum tangere gaudent. Et quoque gaudemus nos miseri, quibus ille dies fuit ultimus ac quibus numquam erit ullam solacium.

Because Laocoon had thrown a spear into the horse of Minerva, we considered him in error and he would be given penalty; we did not know the bitter truth. We opened the gates and admitted that horse into the city; and boys and girls- O homeland, O great gods, O Troy! they rejoiced to touch him. And we also rejoiced .......(nos miseri)............which was done this day finally and which will never be any comfort.

please review my translation.
In particular, the last sentence. I can’t figure out what to do with “nos miseri”.
gaudent and gaudemus - present tense, not past tense, so they "rejoice" and "we rejoice"; the last sentence "And we, the wretched ones, also rejoice, to whom that was the last day and to whom there never will be any solace."
 

Bestiola

Sciura Tigrina Croatica
Staff member
nos putavimus eum erravisse et poenas dedisse - I think it's something along the lines of "We thought he had erred and paid a penalty"
 

john abshire

Well-Known Member
gaudent and gaudemus - present tense, not past tense, so they "rejoice" and "we rejoice"; the last sentence "And we, the wretched ones, also rejoice, to whom that was the last day and to whom there never will be any solace."
I corrected the original post in bold red.
thanks
I did notice that the tense was present, but I thought the author meant for this to be in the historical present.
I am still a little confused on this, but thought it was when the author writes as though the action is in the present, but it is clearly a past tense event. Or visa versa, and/or interchanging the past and present, for example; "Just then he pulls out the knife from behind himself and runs it in all the way to the handle. Then he left him for dead."
 

Bestiola

Sciura Tigrina Croatica
Staff member
I corrected the original post in bold red.
thanks
I did notice that the tense was present, but I thought the author meant for this to be in the historical present.
I am still a little confused on this, but thought it was when the author writes as though the action is in the present, but it is clearly a past tense event. Or visa versa, and/or interchanging the past and present, for example; "Just then he pulls out the knife from behind himself and runs it in all the way to the handle. Then he left him for dead."
Yes, I understand it can be confusing at times, and yes, it seems it was the interchange of the tenses. The Vergil has it slightly differently.

Nos delubra deum miseri, quibus ultimus esset
ille dies, festa velamus fronde per urbem.

Us, the wretched ones, to whom that was to be the last day,
crown through the city the shrines of the gods with festive garlands

Why Whelaker changed esset into fuit is beyond me. Perhaps he thought it would be easier to understand. When you read the original, you usually have notes and explanations for such issues.

Like here, on perseus:
 

cinefactus

Censor
Staff member
nos putavimus eum erravisse et poenas dedisse - I think it's something along the lines of "We thought he had erred and paid a penalty"
We could use the natural English expression, "paid the price".
for quibus, I would say for whom
 

john abshire

Well-Known Member
We could use the natural English expression, "paid the price".
for quibus, I would say for whom
Quod Laocoon in equum Minervae hastam iecerat; nos putavimus eum erravisse et poenas dedisse; veritatem acerbam nescivimus. Portas patefacimus et admittimus istum equum in urbem; ac pueri puellaeque-O patria, O di magni, O Troia!- eum tangere gaudent. Et quoque gaudemus nos miseri, quibus ille dies fuit ultimus ac quibus numquam erit ullam solacium.

Because Laocoon had thrown a spear into the horse of Minerva, we thought he had erred and paid the price; we did not know the bitter truth. We opened the gates and admitted that horse into the city; and boys and girls- O homeland, O great gods, O Troy! they rejoice to touch him. And we also rejoice for whom that was the last day and for whom there will never be any solace.

thank you
 
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