the dream of the sopio

[Leitmotif]

Hi all,

I have an obscure question. I am trying to translate a title ('The Dream of the Sopio') into Latin. Strictly speaking, 'sopio' is already Latin, but not being versed in Latin I don't know how to translate the full title. The title itself is based on 'The Dream of Scipio' (Somnium Scipionis), so I imagined that 'Somnium Sopionis' might be right. Is this so? I would also be interested in knowing whether this implies that it is a dream attributed to a 'sopio' (i.e. a dream had by a sleeping 'sopio'), or is rather/could also be a dream about a 'sopio'.

Many thanks! 8)

 

[voxlarsi]

"The dream of the penis"? I think it's better you keep it in the native language...

 

[Leitmotif]

Thanks voxlarsi. I thought a 'sopio' was a representation of a character with an excessively large phallus?

 

[voxlarsi]

That may be. I've heard it in another context where it (allegedly) merely related to penis as such. And I had assumed that wasn't precisely what you were looking for. I have gone through several dictionaries now, and all of them simply states "penis"; but I don't know if that's the only translation. Where did you learn about this word?

 

[Leitmotif]

I first read it on Wikipedia under Latin profanity:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_profanity

Scroll down to first picture and adjacent text.

 

[voxlarsi]

To me, the meaning seems to mean a caricature of a penis, rather than a character with a large penis. But I think we should hold on until someone who might know more about Roman graffiti shows up on this thread.

ut merdas edatis, qui scripseras sopionis

This is amazing

 

[Decimus Canus]

I first read it on Wikipedia under Latin profanity:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_profanity

Scroll down to first picture and adjacent text.

My first reaction was the same as voxlarsi's but it seems you are right about sopios, and your Somnium Sopionis is therefore correct.

 

[Decimus Canus]

ut merdas edatis, qui scripseras sopionis

This is amazing

Notice the verbs jumping from plural to singular. I'm guessing it may not have been scrawled there by Cicero.

 

[voxlarsi]

Notice the verbs jumping from plural to singular. I'm guessing it may not have been scrawled there by Cicero.

Wasn't this just a graffiti found in Pompeii? I found no indication that it was thought written by Cicero...

 

[Bitmap]

I would also be interested in knowing whether this implies that it is a dream attributed to a 'sopio' (i.e. a dream had by a sleeping 'sopio'), or is rather/could also be a dream about a 'sopio'.

Hello,

the somnium Scipionis in Cicero's de re publica is about a dream Scipio had.
Generally, the genitive may be interpreted in both ways, though. Without context it could also be interpreted as a dream about Scipio. With an object you would be more inclined to think of a dream about a sopio.

 

[Bitmap]

ut merdas edatis, qui scripseras sopionis

This is amazing

Notice the verbs jumping from plural to singular. I'm guessing it may not have been scrawled there by Cicero.

The whole phrase looks weird. The ut is hard to account for and classical Latin would be more likely to put the relative clause into the subjunctive... it could just be a fragment having the end and the beginning of 2 different sentences.

Wasn't this just a graffiti found in Pompeii? I found no indication that it was thought written by Cicero...

read -> think -> post

 

[voxlarsi]

read -> think -> post

Ah, gotcha
Thinking on my breaks is not my safest bet when I've been stuck with thinking the last 10 hours

 

[alemola]

the short phrase "ut merdas edatis qui scrisperas sopionis" appears also in CIL IV 1700, with "et" in place of "ut" as a subscription of a pompeian graffito "dicet vobis Sineros et sopio".
Now: "sopio" of course means "penis", but is also a sort of vox media (cfr. Catullus, 37), like "penis" in a passive and active sense.
But... no doubt that the pompeian graffito is really hard to explane... maybe, without the comma before the relative pronoun, the genitive could pair with "merdas". Any suggestion?