The queen loves the great forest et cetera

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
I wonder where they went; having keyboard issues lately.
It could be the forum's fault. I've had some of what I type mysteriously vanish every once in a while, too.
 

KarlaUK

Active Member
Some delay on reposting. Had to go shopping for cat litter by the large bags: 40kg :chicken:chick crumb.

1. The little boys, having been prompted (use moneō) by Mark, are ready now to defend themselves.
Puerī parvī, ā Mārcō monitī, nunc sē dēfendere parant.
This is something like what I had before I changed it to the above for my initial post. In that case I was trying to use an adverb for ready along with esse. Although I don't think 3rd dec. adj. have been introduced, yet.

Puerī parvī, ā Mārcō monitī, nunc sē parātūs dēfendere sunt.

I don't see how the PPP would be used here. @Bitmap. The book says nothing.

2. The big boys, blamed by everybody (say all) will desist.
Puerī magnī, ā cūnctīs culpātī, dēsistent.
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
2. The big boys, blamed by everybody (say all) will desist.
Puerī magnī, ā cūnctīs culpātī, dēsistent.
That's right.

Puerī parvī, ā Mārcō monitī, nunc sē parātūs dēfendere sunt.

I don't see how the PPP would be used here. @Bitmap. The book says nothing.
It is correct if you make paratus agree with the subject ;) (and swapping it with defendere would be better in terms of word order)

paratus esse aliquid facere = "to be ready to do something"
There is another way of expressing that, but you haven't learnt that, yet.
 

KarlaUK

Active Member
It is correct if you make paratus agree with the subject ;) (and swapping it with defendere would be better in terms of word order)
Puerī parvī, ā Mārcō monitī, nunc sē parātūs dēfendere sunt.

That was using the adjective parātus in the plural nom parātūs (4th dec.)


Puerī parvī, ā Mārcō monitī, nunc sē dēfendere parātī sunt.

But I don't see how that is PPP + infinitive unless that is the way it is normally described.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
That was using the adjective parātus in the plural nom parātūs (4th dec.)
The adjective (originally past participle) is first/second declension.

There are no fourth-declension adjectives or participles. You were looking at the wrong word, the noun meaning "preparation".
But I don't see how that is PPP + infinitive
Paratus is the PPP (perfect passive participle) and defendere is the infinitive dependent on the PPP.
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
Puerī parvī, ā Mārcō monitī, nunc sē parātūs dēfendere sunt.

That was using the adjective parātus in the plural nom parātūs (4th dec.)
There are no adjectives that decline along the 4th declension. They either fall in the 1st/2nd (-us, -a, -um) or in the third declension.
But ok, that explains the macron over the u. Your thought was right, but your inflection wasn't ;)

Puerī parvī, ā Mārcō monitī, nunc sē dēfendere parātī sunt.

But I don't see how that is PPP + infinitive unless that is the way it is normally described.
paratus is the PPP of parare. paratus est literally means "he is made ready". Some of those PPPs are (like in English) rather close to adjectives (cf. a phrase like 'an intoxicated man', 'a failed state', 'a given situation' etc.). paratus is an example of that. paratus est means "he is ready", and the thing someone is ready to do can be expressed with an infinitive construction or with ad + accusative.
 
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KarlaUK

Active Member
The adjective (originally past participle) is first/second declension.

There are no fourth-declension adjectives or participles. You were looking at the wrong word, the noun meaning "preparation".OK

Paratus is the PPP (perfect passive participle) and defendere is the infinitive dependent on the PPP.
OK
and I know that bit but it needs another part to it - esse. That's where I got lost.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
it is mostly not translated
That's not quite true, or at least it's not how I would choose to see things. I would rather see things like this: "are" is not always translated as a separate word. For example, "they are being readied" = parantur. The single word parantur contains the whole idea of the four English words "they are being readied", including "are". So it is translated, in a way. Parati, on the other hand, only contains the idea of "(having been made) ready (masc. pl. nom.)". No "are" idea in there, so you need to add it (except in cases of ellipsis, but I guess you'll see that a bit later).
 

KarlaUK

Active Member
That's not quite true, or at least it's not how I would choose to see things. I would rather see things like this: "are" is not always translated as a separate word. For example, "they are being readied" = parantur. The single word parantur contains the whole idea of the four English words "they are being readied", including "are". So it is translated, in a way. Parati, on the other hand, only contains the idea of "(having been made) ready (masc. pl. nom.)". No "are" idea in there, so you need to add it (except in cases of ellipsis, but I guess you'll see that a bit later).
That re-framing helps tremendously. I wonder how people learn English when there are all these compound tenses and filler words. :hysteric:
 

KarlaUK

Active Member
Back, after a challenging month with work.

Another exercise but this time Latin to English.
Please will anyone help check my translations from basic textbook Latin into English to assist my self-learning.Exercises are from W Gardner Hale's First Latin Book. A short comment on these whether wrong or right would be much appreciated.

Section 236 (1st Ed.)
(The Perfects here are partly Present Perfects, partly Aorists).

Aliquid novī tibi nūntiātūrus sum. Ego et Iūlius in silvā prope scholam in idōneō locō tabernāculum statūtūri sumus. Loca propinqua herī explōrāvimus. Nihil vīdimus perīculōsī. Locus ipse ubi tabernāculum est pulcher est.

I am going to tell you some news. Julius and I are going to set up a tent in a suitable location in the forest near the school. We have explored places (areas) near here. We have seen nothing of danger. The place itself where the tent will stand is beautiful.

Section 248 (2nd Ed.)
(The Perfects here are partly Present Perfects, partly Aorists).

1. Mārcus cēnam in silvā iterum datūrus esse dīcitur. Putātur nōs invītātūrus esse.
Marcus is said to be giving dinner in the forest again. He is thought to be going to invite us.

2. Aliquid novī tibi nūntiātūrus sum. Ego et Iūlius in idōneō locō tabernāculum statūtūrī sumus. Est in silvā prope scholam parvum spatium apertum. Hīc tabernāculum stātūrum est. Loca propinqau herī explōrāvimus. Nihil vīdimus perīculōsī. Locus ipse pulcher est.

I am going to tell you some news. Julius and I are going to set up a tent in a suitable place. A small open space is in the forest near the school. OR There is a small open space in the forest near the school. Here the tent is going to be set up. We have explored places (areas) near here. We have seen nothing of danger. The place itself is lovely.

Section 236 (1st Ed.) & Section 248 (2nd Ed.)
(The Perfects here are partly Present Perfects, partly Aorists).

Eō saepe vel māne vel post scholae hōrās convenient amīcī ā nōbīs invītātī. Tē invītāre statuimus. Aliōs nunc dē hōc tabernāculō doctūrus sum. Valē. (The hearer congratulates himself) "Tē", inquit, "invītāre statuimus". Haec Sextī ipsa verba sunt, Beātus sum.

Friends, invited by us, will meet, often in (to) this place, in the morning or after school (hours). We have decided to invite you. I am going to tell others now about this tent. Goodbye. "You", he said, "we have decided to invite". I am blessed.
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
Marcus is said to be giving dinner in the forest again.
That's right ... I don't know how crazy your book is about the future aspect, though, which would require some rephrasing. Like "They say Marcus will give etc."

We have explored places (areas) near here. We have seen nothing of danger.
You forgot to translate heri (in which case you would probably also have chosen the past tense in English).

Friends, invited by us, will meet, often in (to) this place, in the morning or after school (hours).
Very good!

"You", he said, "we have decided to invite". I am blessed.
haec Sexti ipsa verba sunt is missing.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Hey, nice to see you again!
Loca propinqua herī explōrāvimus.
We have explored places (areas) near here.
Heri = yesterday.
Nihil vīdimus perīculōsī.
We have seen nothing of danger.
Literally "nothing of dangerous", but in real English "nothing dangerous".
ubi tabernāculum est
where the tent will stand
This sentences says "where the tent is (or stands if you will)", in the present tense, which is odd since the speaker has just said that the tent is to be pitched in the future. Did you mistranscribe the Latin, forgetting a future participle before est?
1. Mārcus cēnam in silvā iterum datūrus esse dīcitur. Putātur nōs invītātūrus esse.
Marcus is said to be giving dinner in the forest again. He is thought to be going to invite us.
Good.
2. Aliquid novī tibi nūntiātūrus sum. Ego et Iūlius in idōneō locō tabernāculum statūtūrī sumus. Est in silvā prope scholam parvum spatium apertum. Hīc tabernāculum stātūrum est. Loca propinqau herī explōrāvimus. Nihil vīdimus perīculōsī. Locus ipse pulcher est.

I am going to tell you some news. Julius and I are going to set up a tent in a suitable place. A small open space is in the forest near the school. OR There is a small open space in the forest near the school. Here the tent is going to be set up. We have explored places (areas) near here. We have seen nothing of danger. The place itself is lovely.
Same problems as above regarding heri and periculosi.

Staturum
is active, from the verb sto, to stand.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
I don't know how crazy your book is about the future aspect, though, which would require some rephrasing.
Well, yeah, it would require some rephrasing to be more literally future. The present progressive regularly does convey a future meaning in English, though, and the meaning is preserved here.
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
This sentences says "where the tent is (or stands if you will)", in the present tense, which is odd since the speaker has just said that the tent is to be pitched in the future. Did you mistranscribe the Latin, forgetting a future participle before est?
I feel like I'm losing my mind.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Why?
 
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