Hi, all. I am wondering if there are, abberationally, any Latin adverbs in "-ē " which are derived from third declension adjectives in "-is", that anybody can think of. Thanks.
It's iambic and the e has to be short.I don't know whether the poem is in any sort of classical-style metre to help us know the length of the -e.
More like pre-classical I suppose. It's called a "frozen accusative" in German ... I don't know what exactly it is called in English.I found myself wondering if the other examples cited by Bitmap, adverbial dulce and facile (I didn't even think of these examples of what I would call "irregular" third declension adverbs), have a similar post-classical origin.
That's fascinating to me, I will do some reading up on it. Semantics, which I assume this falls under, is the aspect of language which is most interesting to me. Thanks!It's called a "frozen accusative" in German ... I don't know what exactly it is called in English.
Both dulce and facile are perfectly Classical adverbs. I'm not quite sure if they're both pre-classical as well (found in Plautus, Cato or a fragment of that era), maybe they are. EDIT: Actually, Lewis & Short do give two examples of facile in Plautus.Thanks much! Bitmap has demonstrated the etymology, and Serenus has provided the provenance for this. Surely a later Latin development, perhaps made in order to maintain the meter in verse??? I found myself wondering if the other examples cited by Bitmap, adverbial dulce and facile (I didn't even think of these examples of what I would call "irregular" third declension adverbs), have a similar post-classical origin. Also, the rationale behind using an accusative neuter singular for an adverbial form appears obscure to me, unless such was done in simple mimicry of the appearance of adverbs derived from first and second declension adjectives.
An apt point, certainly.Both dulce and facile are perfectly Classical adverbs...Notice how Classical Latin also uses a neuter-gender accusative in comparative adverbs: minus 'less', acrius 'more/rather bitterly, more/rather violently'.
I am left wondering why facile and dulce would appear in the face of faciliter and dulciter...might it possibly be that dulce and facile are the older forms, examples of "frozen accusatives", maybe from Proto-Italic, and already existed when -iter became universal for the third declension? That is a question for a better historian than myself, and, indeed, might represent a question that's impossible to answer (I am great at asking such weird questions).The application of this adverbial -e to fit a meter is unlikely, as Jerome also uses it (his translation of the Bible is not metrical in the classical sense). I'd venture it's an analogy of adverbs like facile and dulce.
My guess is that the "frozen accusatives" predate the -(i)ter endings because you also have that phenomenon in Ancient Greek. This kind of word formation for adverbs was probably not productive anymore by classical times (and the example of iuge above may be more of a poetical license), but a great deal of these forms was retained. I mentioned tantum and solum above, Serenus mentioned the comparative of adverbs. There are many more examples.I am left wondering why facile and dulce would appear in the face of faciliter and dulciter...might it possibly be that dulce and facile are the older forms, examples of "frozen accusatives", maybe from Proto-Italic, and already existed when -iter became universal for the third declension? That is a question for a better historian than myself, and, indeed, might represent a question that's impossible to answer (I am great at asking such weird questions).
As I said, I have no real idea about the terminology in English, there. The German term is "erstarrter Akkusativ", and I simply created a direct translation.I've searched online, and haven't been able to find anything on the "frozen accusative" apart from discussions within doctoral theses, and other academic papers (I'm surprised that Wikipedia doesn't have an article). It seems to have influenced grammar in Indo-European, Semitic, and Altaic and Tungusic Languages, anyway. I will have to check out my public library, when it reopens after the Covid-19 scare, to see if there is any reading material there.
You may want to check out the section Derivation of Adverbs in Allen and Greenough's grammar. They give more examples of accusatives as adverbs (saepe, quid 'why', dēmum, partim, statim, saltem, aliās, forās, iam, the -dum adverbs dūdum and nōndum). There's also ablatives used as adverbs there (falsō, forte...). Many of these need some awareness of historical grammar to be recognized though.I am left wondering why facile and dulce would appear in the face of faciliter and dulciter...might it possibly be that dulce and facile are the older forms, examples of "frozen accusatives", maybe from Proto-Italic, and already existed when -iter became universal for the third declension? That is a question for a better historian than myself, and, indeed, might represent a question that's impossible to answer (I am great at asking such weird questions).
Personally I'm surprised you found anything with that literally translated term at all. :-DI've searched online, and haven't been able to find anything on the "frozen accusative" apart from discussions within doctoral theses, and other academic papers (I'm surprised that Wikipedia doesn't have an article). It seems to have influenced grammar in Indo-European, Semitic, and Altaic and Tungusic Languages, anyway. I will have to check out my public library, when it reopens after the Covid-19 scare, to see if there is any reading material there.
I'd say it was from the ablative. It's worth mentioning that -iter itself is probably pretty old though, from the Italic *-teros, from PIE *-teros, with the alternative *-eros; I don't see a reason why it would have to be younger.An apt point, certainly.
I am left wondering why facile and dulce would appear in the face of faciliter and dulciter...might it possibly be that dulce and facile are the older forms, examples of "frozen accusatives", maybe from Proto-Italic, and already existed when -iter became universal for the third declension? That is a question for a better historian than myself, and, indeed, might represent a question that's impossible to answer (I am great at asking such weird questions).
Thanks for that...You may want to check out the section Derivation of Adverbs in Allen and Greenough's grammar.
...and as I said: "yikes!"Many of these need some awareness of historical grammar to be recognized though.
These aren't adverbials.the dative (in Latin: ethical datives and datives of reference, purpose and possessor)
None of that seems really strange. All of the examples discussed here are pretty simple examples of grammaticalisation as far as I can see.I guess all of this seems strange because it defies the agglutinative process, and the principles controlling the various uses of such "case-adverbials" are unclear to me.
I think they kind of are.These aren't adverbials.
Ugh, give me an example where you think they're an adverbial.I think they kind of are.
The genitive of price, mentioned above, is pretty much another adverbial (magnī meā interest 'I'm interested in it a lot'; rūmōrēs ūnīus aestimēmus assis 'let's value the rumours at a penny').It seems equally apparent to me, that throughout IE linguistic history, all the various cases of nouns and adjectives have been used adverbially: the nominative (Latin versus, etc.), the genitive (in Old and Middle English), the dative (in Latin: ethical datives and datives of reference, purpose and possessor), the accusative (our subject here, used under different circumstances than adverbial datives), the ablative (in Latin and elsewhere).