A sentence to decipher:
Tibine ea quibus opus est invenisti?
Tibine ea quibus opus est invenisti?
Tibine ea quibus opus est invenisti
- Thread starter fugit_tempus
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Oh, thank God it's not just me! I thought my Latin didn't suffice to understand the sentence, and now I see that I was right in my first supposition that there was something wrong with it.
I understand this:
To you (+ne which makes it a question) she by/with/from/to whom work is discovered (but the discovered here has no relation with the 'est', since it would be: inventus est - It is discovered.)
I understand this:
To you (+ne which makes it a question) she by/with/from/to whom work is discovered (but the discovered here has no relation with the 'est', since it would be: inventus est - It is discovered.)
Puzzling, need the context.
"opus est" is an exceedingly common way of saying "there is a need" (to do something), and it takes a dative referent and an infinitive.
However "ea" and "invenisti", as well as the relative make this sentence enigmatic without more context.
"opus est" is an exceedingly common way of saying "there is a need" (to do something), and it takes a dative referent and an infinitive.
However "ea" and "invenisti", as well as the relative make this sentence enigmatic without more context.
There is no context for this gem. This is a sentence from Moreland & Fleischer's Latin grammar which I was never able to figure out. I have a whole list of mysetry sentences like this which I will be posting here for our "fun and profit." We can all crack our heads against them, and hopefully one of us will succed in solving the riddle. Maybe there is just something wrong with these sentences. But there are an awful lot of them. So either the authors are very careless with their Latin, or they are skilled at constructing some super-tough sentences.
I am thinking a possible translation of "Tibine ea quibus opus est invenisti?" is:
Have you found those which are are necessary to yourself?
Have you found those which are are necessary to yourself?
or in better English:
Have you found those things you need?
Have you found those things you need?
But why 'quibus' (dat, abl) then? Doesn't make sense. Should the sentence be as you say, shouldn't it be an accusative form of a relative pronoun?
You found (invenisti) that (ea) which (acc.?) is useful (opus est) to yourself (tibi)?(-ne).
So I don't see how quibus fits.
You found (invenisti) that (ea) which (acc.?) is useful (opus est) to yourself (tibi)?(-ne).
So I don't see how quibus fits.
"Opus est mihi" + ablative = "I need" + object (for instance: "Opus est mihi libris" = "I need books")
"Tibine ea quibus opus est invenisti?" = "Have you found (invenisti) the things (ea) that you need (tibi quibus opus est)?"
Another way to say the same thing would be: "Invenisti(ne) ea, quibus tibi opus est?"
"Tibine ea quibus opus est invenisti?" = "Have you found (invenisti) the things (ea) that you need (tibi quibus opus est)?"
Another way to say the same thing would be: "Invenisti(ne) ea, quibus tibi opus est?"
Actually, it's a fixed expression. You can find it in Plautus, for instance:
http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/plautus/mercator.shtml ("Quid verbis opus est?")
http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/plautus/mercator.shtml ("Quid verbis opus est?")
A
Anonymous
Guest
The use of Ablativus after "opus est".
Iblardi' s translation and comment are 100 per cent correct.
"Quibus" is Ablativus Pluralis that follows "opus est".
The latter is a set phrase that is followed by Ablativus.
There is nothing bizarre whatsover about such kind of usage.
Certain verbs and predicative phrases take a certain case in Latin,
it is one of the things that we just have to accept.
Thus, "Have you found what you need / what is of use to you" is the
meaning.
Iblardi' s translation and comment are 100 per cent correct.
"Quibus" is Ablativus Pluralis that follows "opus est".
The latter is a set phrase that is followed by Ablativus.
There is nothing bizarre whatsover about such kind of usage.
Certain verbs and predicative phrases take a certain case in Latin,
it is one of the things that we just have to accept.
Thus, "Have you found what you need / what is of use to you" is the
meaning.
Opus est mihi tibi.. I need you?
Not quite, meu amigo. Your tibi should be in the ablative (one of the cases denoting source); assim, opus est mihi te.
Well, perhaps to a Roman, but a speaker of Modern English has every right to be puzzled.
QMF, the basic meaning of opus is 'work', but it's easily transferred to mean 'that which has to be done > need'. Consider the German beduerfan 'to need, require' and its Lithuanian cognate dirbti 'work'.
And so opus est 'there is need', and the thing-needed is in the ablative denoting source or origin, like opus est amore 'there is need (having its source in) love'.
Incidentally, Old Spanish retains this construction as huebos mi es.
E
Etaoin Shrdlu
Guest
That's bedürfen. Infinitives don't end in -an any more.