Translation of Elizabethan Latin Manuscript

reaper

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Thank you.

I have uploaded two files for your consideration. File 1, manu-E1-revised.pdf is the updated document for this manuscript. File 2, manu9-h2-transcript.pdf, is the latin and english translation for a similar document Cinefactus helped me with last year. It I think will help you answer some of your questions posed above.

Paul
 

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socratidion

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Just checking your new version:
in line two, I don't see any need to capitalise the 'a' (in 'a conquestu')-- it's exactly the same as the one in the previous line ('a die')

So you think 'Owen' is likely?

line 4, 'deforcientes'

line 5 'recognoverunt'

line 6, end, 'Johanni et Abrahamo' (not Johannis)

line 7 for preteria the only Latin word I can think of is preterita, but as I noted, I can't make sense of it.

line 7 second half, 'ipsius Johanne' not 'ipsius Johano' (rather crucial!)

I'm not sure why you are using the future form 'Warrantizabunt'; present 'warrantizant' or perfect 'warrantizaverunt' would also make sense (but again, perhaps you know something I don't).

Oh crumbs, more Johans. OK here's the whole chunk again:
ipsius Johanne quod ipsi warrantizant predicto Johanni et Abrahamo…

Line 9: is it quieteclamacione or quietaclamacione?

It doesn't solve all my translation problems, but it does some: do you want me to amend my translation, or can you take it from here?
 

reaper

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lol, i am a new born babe when it comes to Latin. Seriously,
I'm not sure why you are using the future form 'Warrantizabunt'; present 'warrantizant' or perfect 'warrantizaverunt' would also make sense (but again, perhaps you know something I don't).
nor am I!!

I would be grateful if you could amend your translation to reflect any changes other than those mentioned above up to and including line 7.

I really appreciate your time and help. I am getting better at understanding Latin, and certainly getting alot better at reading the different scripts. My problem, I look at a line of text and read the words but have no idea what they all mean together or if they have the right endings!

I went with Owen for two reasons. One, i had identified the circle with line through as a capital O (i only realised this when i went back through the letter grid) and the rest of the word is Wen. O +Wen = OWen. Second reason, there is no better idea or suggestion!

Paul
 
 

cinefactus

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a die pasche in quindecim dies is on the fifteenth day after Easter

(I can't figure out what 'conq-' is. If from 'conquestus', then the ablative is 'conquestu' as I have given in the transcription.
a conquesto seems to be what is written elsewhere. I would have taken it as Queen of England, France and Ireland by conquest, but people seem to put from the conquest. Maybe it is something do with what is in the etc.

maybe pertinentia is 'appurtenances'? I use that from now on.
You are right, this is the correct legal term. Niermeyer lists it as feminine singular.

Line 9: is it quieteclamacione or quietaclamacione?
Latham has both spellings, although Niermeyer only has quieta...

[preterita puzzles me, meaning 'past'. I might check this later]
What about preterea?
For Johannis we could say John.

[I'd be happier if 'fine' were 'finali' (so 'final agreement'), but I can't get that from the handwriting.]
I think we could read it fine in Latin and English.

And for this acknowledgement, remission, quit-claim, warrant, fine & agreement the same John and Abraham ave given to the foresaid Richard & Joanna forty one pounds sterling.
 

socratidion

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Very helpful.
The part I'm still not getting is 'unde placitum... fuit'. How did you figure this literally, last time?
 
 

cinefactus

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Very helpful.
The part I'm still not getting is 'unde placitum... fuit'. How did you figure this literally, last time?
Whereof a plea of covenant was summoned between them in the same court...

Not smart, just cheating ;)

I actually have a book on reading these documents, but I can't find where I put it. A lot of the language is formulaic.
 

socratidion

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With thanks to Cinefactus for the last-minute problem solving...
This is the final agreement made in the court of the Lady Queen at Westminster from the day of Easter for fifteen days in the twenty sixth year from the conquest of the reigns of Elizabeth by god's grace queen of England, France and Scotland, defender of the faith etc. in the presence of Edward Anderson, Thomas Walmsysley, Francis Beaumont and Thomas Owen, justicaries, and other faithful <servants> of the Lady queen there present at that time, between John Veroffi and Abraham Veroffi, plaintiffs, and Richard Lyndham and his wife Joan, defendants, concerning one mesuage, one garden, one orchard, four acres of land and three acres of meadow, with appurtenances. Whereof a plea of covenant was summoned between them in the same court, to wit that the aforesaid Richard and Joan have recognised the aforesaid holdings with appurtenances to be the legal property of John himself as being those things which the same John and Abraham have from the gift of the aforesaid Richard and Joan, and they remit them and quit-claim them from Richard and Joan themselves and from their heirs for John and Abraham and the heirs of John himself for ever thereafter. The same Richard and Joan have conceded on their own behalf and on behalf of the heirs of Joan herself that they themselves warrant to the aforesaid John and Abraham and the heirs of John himself the aforesaid holdings with appurtenances against <any claim by?> the aforesaid Richard and Joan and the heirs of Joan herself for ever, and in return for this recognition, remission, and quit-claim, by warrant, fine and agreement the same John and Abraham have given to the aforesaid Richard and Joan forty-one pounds of sterling.

So, Reaper, note I've used 'preterea' instead of 'preterita'. If Cinefactus (and Niermeyer) is right about appurtenances, we must read 'pertinentiis' or 'pertinentijs' instead of 'pertinentibus'.
 
 

cinefactus

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I think it should be quatuor acris terre et tribus acris pratis
four acres of land and three acres of meadows
 

socratidion

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Hurrah! Brilliant! 'terre' definitely. Now we've got that, it must be
quatuor acris terre et tribus acris prati
(i.e. acris is the ablative dependent on 'de', and terre and prati are both partitive genitive)
I shall amend the translation accordingly.
 

reaper

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How on earth did you ever work out that the missing word was terre? Even with the benefit of the transcription i would still not guess it was terre! Bravo.

Thank you so much for your work on this socratidion and Cinefactus.

I'm not sure if its of any use or interest, but if there is a place on here to upload finished transcripts (including the breakdowns etc), other people may be able to use them as reference material or help them to begin transcription on their manuscripts.
Apart from the obvious enjoyment i get from transcribing, the careful record keeping was to enable other people to learn from and have a go.

Paul
 
 

cinefactus

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How on earth did you ever work out that the missing word was terre? Even with the benefit of the transcription i would still not guess it was terre!
The language of quitclaims is very formulaic, so there are a limited number of words which could be there. terre is the most common. I initially ignored it, but I couldn't think of another suitable word beginning with t and ending in e. I think the squiggle in the middle is the round r, extended to indicate a double letter.

Hurrah! Brilliant! 'terre' definitely. Now we've got that, it must be
quatuor acris terre et tribus acris prati
Of course. I had a mental blank about the declension of pratum...
 

reaper

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Thank you for your help with this manuscript. I am sorry i have not replied sooner - i am frequently away with work.

I will update the document to reflect the changes you have all made.

Paul
 
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