Unclear inscriptions on seals

dazzaessexuk

New Member
hi all my name is darren im from the uk i am starting collecting seals and need some help i have around 20 i have worked out but this one has an inscription that has me stumped i have included a picture it may not even be latin it may be another language but i just cannot work it out any help would be really appreciated thank you

the red letter s is a possible as its quite corroded it may not be there
 

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Civis Illustris
Re: help required for a newbie

all i can tell you is that it's not Latin ... at least it doesnt make sense to me
 

dazzaessexuk

New Member
Re: help required for a newbie

thanks bitmap i will assume you mean both of them , sadly these inscriptions are very difficult to decode thanks for your help :hat:
 

scrabulista

Consul
Staff member
Re: help required for a newbie

The second one looks a bit like Honi soit qui mal y pense -- but it's a good bit off.
 

Matthaeus

Vemortuicida strenuus
Re: help required for a newbie

mutet adminiſtatror quidam hoc titulum nuntii nam auctor eius praeceptorum noſtrorum oblitus eße videtur
 

Cinefactus

Censor
Staff member
I think that the second is Middle French :Fause amye soit horye
If I were to make a stab at it it might be something like
hereditary succession / inheritance is a false friend
 

Manus Correctrix

QVAE CORRIGIT
Cinefactus dixit:
I think that the second is Middle French :Fause amye soit horye
If I were to make a stab at it it might be something like
hereditary succession / inheritance is a false friend
That seems close.

Fause amye soit honye

=

Perfidæ amatrici sit ignominia.
 

Cinefactus

Censor
Staff member
That was where I was going wrong. It is an n, rather than an r

So do you think honye corresponds to honte, or honnir

Edit: Looks like my link doesn't work properly, but you know what I mean!
 

Cinefactus

Censor
Staff member
Don't mind me. Of course it is honir isn't it :oops:

So in English it should be something like
Shame upon a false mistress
or perhaps
A false mistress should be spurned

So the question is, what is the provenance of the seal? Do you know who the picture is of?
 

Manus Correctrix

QVAE CORRIGIT
Cinefactus dixit:
So do you think honye corresponds to honte, or honnir
Yeah, it’s the feminine passive participle of honir (modern honnir), from a Germanic root cognate with Gothic haunjan, ‘to abase’. Honte is the corresponding noun.

I don’t know whether this is a curse on faithless girlfriends by a man, or a woman’s declaration of faithfulness (i.e. ‘a curse upon me should I stray’).
 

Cinefactus

Censor
Staff member
I think that the likely translation for the second seal is:

Shame upon a false mistress

and it is likely to be some kind of political propaganda. If you could identify the face, it would make it more clear.
 

dazzaessexuk

New Member
thanks guys your certainly the people to ask it has been submitted to the british museam as treasure as it was a detector find so i will let you know the outcome of there interpretation when we get it :banana:
 

Manus Correctrix

QVAE CORRIGIT
It was found in the ground in Essex? Probably Norman then.
 

Cinefactus

Censor
Staff member
My guess would be later. I am not sure if this kind of propaganda was used in Norman times. The ones I have seen were 17th century. The language (and font) would be anachronistic for this dating however. If we are having a sweep, put me in for something like 14-15th century ;)
 

dazzaessexuk

New Member
the winner is cinefactus from the owner of the item
Hi dazzaessex! You're friends hit the nail on the head! the experts have come back with
'may a false (female) lover be shamed'
its old french. and probably 14th century
all you have to do now is decode the first one lol thanks everyone
 
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