Virgil's Aeneid

[vicus]

Hi,

In the beginning there is the text:

"Arma virumque cano, Troiae qui primus ab oris
Italiam, fato profugus, Laviniaque venit
litora, multum ille et terris iactatus et alto
vi superum saevae memorem Iunonis ob iram;"

1. "Arma virumque" is translated as "arms and the man": so where does the "and" come from?
2. "Laviniaque venit litora": how can "venit" come in the middle? It's easy to understand if "Laviniaque litora" stay together...
3. "et alto vi superum": here "et" is translated as "by", but I can't find this meaning in dictionary. So how it comes?

Thanks.

 

[Imperfacundus]

1. -que is a suffix meaning "and".
2. For the sake of poëtic meter.
3. No it's not. A lot of monoglots mistakenly believe that languages are translated word-for-word. The "by" comes later, appearing in the particular ending of the word vi.

 

[vicus]

Many thanks.

2. For the sake of poëtic meter: does this happen often in Latin prosing, ie breaking up the phrase?
3. No it's not. A lot of monoglots mistakenly believe that languages are translated word-for-word. The "by" comes later, appearing in the particular ending of the word vi: isn't the "et" redundant then if 'by' is embodied by vi? or what's function of "et" here?

 

[Imperfacundus]

2. You'll see it everywhere in poëtry, but less so in prose. It still happens, though, as in magna cum laude.
3. The et just means "and".

 

[vicus]

4. multumilleetterrisiactatusetalto vi superum: there is translation saying "Smitten of storms he was on land and sea", but I can't see the 'sea' in the Latin. Or is it hinted in "ille"?

 

[Imperfacundus]

Alto = on the sea.
Yes, it's also an adjective. Just like we'll call an open sea "the deep" in English.

You seem to be a beginner. The Aeneid's rather convoluted- try tackling some straightforward prose like Caesar's.

 

[Nikolaos]

You seem to be a beginner. The Aeneid's rather convoluted- try tackling some straightforward prose like Caesar's.

But still easier than Cicero for its brevity, or some reason that I can't put my finger on.

 

[vicus]

Thanks for all the help. I want to start reading some real Latin text - to stimulate my Latin study. I'll have a look on Caesar's, or Cicero.

Another convolutional phrase I just found in this text is "et terris iactatus et alto", which seems to be easy to understand if it were "et terris et alto iactatus", is it? And I would expect both "terris" and "alto" are plural for symmetry in poetry, but as I checked "alto" is singular, so why the author didn't make "alto" plural as well?

 

[Manus Correctrix]

Virtually all your questions about nuances in word choice can be answered with ‘Because otherwise it wouldn’t scan’.

 

[vicus]

Thanks. So Virgil had to trade off the plural form for the rhythm. I assume a best poet can keep both

I saw something like "et terris et paludibus" on the web, both are in plural.

 

[Adrian]

Thanks. So Virgil had to trade off the plural form for the rhythm. I assume a best poet can keep both

I saw something like "et terris et paludibus" on the web, both are in plural.

vicus, mabybe this will help you (links to Virgil Aeneid with comments to vocabulary)
http://nodictionaries.com/vergil/aeneid-1/1-7
http://www.scribd.com/doc/38864978/Vergil-s-Aeneid-Vocabulary
http://books.google.dk/books?id=gP0pAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA407&dq=The+Works+of+Virgil+translated+into+english+prose+vol+ii&hl=pl&sa=X&ei=zJDZT76YA9DBswayxoHKCA&ved=0CF8Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.dk/books?id=rNkpAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA49&dq=The+Works+of+Virgil+translated+into+english+prose+vol+ii&hl=pl&sa=X&ei=zJDZT76YA9DBswayxoHKCA&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[vicus]

Thanks a lot!

 

[Avunculus H]

Thanks. So Virgil had to trade off the plural form for the rhythm. I assume a best poet can keep both

The plural "altis" would have scanned as well. While the word order is very much dictated by the meter, it's preferable to assume that the choice of words with a poet of Virgils's calibre is due to what he intended to say. Here one can argue that Aeneas is led to his destination via various lands (=terris), but sailing on one sea (=alto).

 

[Nikolaos]

Vergil also uses poetic plurals that have no plural signification in many places.

 

[Decimvs]

Also, be careful about too often assuming that Vergil did things just to fit metre. His consciousness lived and breathed Latin language, and he was a renowned poet to those whose native language was Latin; he didn't need to fumble around with things -- he was an expert beyond what we can conceive of with respect to Latin language. Some things that seem odd may indeed be a result of Vergil needing to fit a metre, but to constantly default to this as an explanation for things that seem odd to us is a bit ill-conceived.

 

[Manus Correctrix]

That’s no doubt good advice for people attempting high-level analysis of poetry, but I’m just boiling things down to the essential points for this person who doesn’t know what hexameter is, or even the ablative.