Webcomic Pepper&Carrot's Latin translation

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
I probably would have worded the whole episode differently myself, but when providing feedback it's difficult to know where to stop. Do you only point out what's really wrong or do you go on to rewrite the whole thing as you would have? I chose to leave something to the original translator here...
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
The a tempore feels strange to me. Obviously, he wanted to say "they are specimens of urine from the time when ..."
I wonder if find such an example anywhere ...
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
The construction doesn't seem theoretically impossible, but whether it's found anywhere...

I guess a safer way of putting it might be something like urina est felis meae nuper apud medicum collecta.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Actually, I wonder why you'd take a urine sample back home...
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
True ... usually the need to send it in.
 

Quasus

Civis Illustris
Yeah, I'd vote for a complete rewrite. It just feels unlatin. I don't think it's ethical to experiment on beginners like that.
 

Iohannes Aurum

Technicus Auxiliarius
Yeah, I'd vote for a complete rewrite. It just feels unlatin. I don't think it's ethical to experiment on beginners like that.
I second the motion to rewrite Pepper&Carrot's Latin translations from scratch.

Good thing that we can do so ourselves and we have Revoy's approval to do so.
 

Quasus

Civis Illustris
Personally, I don’t think I know Latin good enough.

Translating into a foreign language is difficult. It’s hard to tell when you become ridiculous.

Moreover, in this particular case the genre is underdeveloped and one can’t even rely on Google to confirm that a given turn of speech is sufficiently Latin. As the text is conversational, probably the translator should have a good grasp of Plautus, Terence, and neo-Latin dialogues.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
I'm not very enthusiastic about large unpaid projects, but as this episode is relatively short I could translate it little by little, one or two bubbles at a time when I'm bored (which happens regularly). Can I access the original anywhere?
Moreover, in this particular case the genre is underdeveloped and one can’t even rely on Google to confirm that a given turn of speech is sufficiently Latin.
Well, when translating modern stuff or stuff that the Romans didn't write much about, there will always be times when you have to be content with an educated guess.
 

Quasus

Civis Illustris
The world depicted in the comic is not modern, so I think the problem is not about naming things. Surely, witches and potions are covered by Latin texts, albeit not Roman. On the contrary, the style is modern. A serious translator is aware that he is to carefully rephrase the text so as to make it Latin, to render the sense in adequate Latin, rather then just look up individual words and pile them together. This is evident for us, I think, but it is exactly the impression I get from the existent translation.

For instance, we see that ‘Fantastic!’ has been translated as Mirifice!. Is this the right way? Essentially, ‘Fantanstic!’ is an interjection expressing delight and mirifice! looks like its made-up Latin counterpart. Is there no way to express delight in Latin? I believe, there is. Would Euge! do? Should it be reinforced by doubling, or by papae/-pae (I’ve got Forcellini open)? Are there options besides euge? I’m not sure.
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
The world depicted in the comic is not modern, so I think the problem is not about naming things. Surely, witches and potions are covered by Latin texts, albeit not Roman. On the contrary, the style is modern. A serious translator is aware that he is to carefully rephrase the text so as to make it Latin, to render the sense in adequate Latin, rather then just look up individual words and pile them together. This is evident for us, I think, but it is exactly the impression I get from the existent translation.
Well, yes ... it's a bit weird. It seems to me like there has been an increase in Latin translations of modern texts over the last few decades, but a general decrease in quality.

For example, I noticed a few weeks/months ago that there was a 'new' Latin translation of 'Le Petit Prince' ('Principulus') published in 2015 by a German (at least the name sounds German to me). There had already been a translation in 1985 ('Regulus'), which, from what I've heard, was supposed to be quite good. I don't really see the need for a new translation, unless you think the other translation was bad and you can improve on it ... but just look at the small text samples on this page ...

http://www.petit-prince.at/pp-latein.htm


German dude dixit:
O principule mi! Eo modo gradatim cognovi quam tristem vitulam agebas. Diu e nihilo nisi ex aspectu solis occidentis voluptatem quandam capiebas. Quod novi quarto die mane, quo mihi dixisti: Valde delector pulchritudine solis occasus.
Why would you even publish that??


For instance, we see that ‘Fantastic!’ has been translated as Mirifice!. Is this the right way? Essentially, ‘Fantanstic!’ is an interjection expressing delight and mirifice! looks like its made-up Latin counterpart. Is there no way to express delight in Latin? I believe, there is. Would Euge! do? Should it be reinforced by doubling, or by papae/-pae (I’ve got Forcellini open)? Are there options besides euge? I’m not sure.

I usually say optime! Would that work? :>
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
Why would you even publish that??
NB: This is not even just some random web comic ... the others expect this to be read in school ...

For comparison, the 1985 version:


O regule! sic sensim intellexi quam tristem aetatulam degeres. Cui nulla alia oblectatio diu fuerat nisi suaves illi solis occidentis conspectus. Hoc novi ... quarto die mane didici, cum mihi dixisti: Solis occasus me multum delectant.
 

Dantius

Homo Sapiens
Staff member
yes, it is disturbing that someone who doesn't even realize indirect questions take the subjunctive is allowed to publish a Latin translation of anything.
 

Quasus

Civis Illustris
Haury's translation is even earlier, from 1961. It made it to Desessard's textbook (1966).
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
Haury's translation is even earlier, from 1961. It made it to Desessard's textbook.

Thank you! That explains a lot ... I somehow had in mind that there was a translation from the 60s, but I couldn't find it in a quick internet search.
 

Iohannes Aurum

Technicus Auxiliarius
I'm not very enthusiastic about large unpaid projects, but as this episode is relatively short I could translate it little by little, one or two bubbles at a time when I'm bored (which happens regularly). Can I access the original anywhere?
Well, when translating modern stuff or stuff that the Romans didn't write much about, there will always be times when you have to be content with an educated guess.
English version:

https://www.peppercarrot.com/en/article271/episode-6-the-potion-contest

French version:

https://www.peppercarrot.com/fr/article271/episode-6-the-potion-contest

David Revoy is bilingual. He normally writes in French, but Pepper&Carrot is actually written in English first for beta testing.

Pacifica Issacus Divus

The links are fixed
 

Issacus Divus

H₃rḗǵs h₁n̥dʰéri diwsú
Thanks.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
David Revoy is bilingual. He normally writes in French, but Pepper&Carrot is actually written in English first for beta testing.
So you tell me the original is the English?

The French Wiki says each episode is first written in French and then translated into English. Is that an error?
 

Iohannes Aurum

Technicus Auxiliarius
So you tell me the original is the English?

The French Wiki says each episode is first written in French and then translated into English. Is that an error?
Read here: https://www.davidrevoy.com/article729/peppercarrot-derivation-a-third-book-printed-by-glenat

David Revoy dixit:
Also, a big thank you to all contributors and proofreader who helped at improving this collections of episodes. The license attribution is respected into the details and can be found on the first pages of this printed version. A special thanks to the French translators: Nicolas Artance, Calimeroteknik, Midgard, Valvin who helped me to translate the episode from English to French (because I wrote many of this episodes directly in English to ease the collaborative storyboard beta reading systemprocess). Also, the full list of credits and patrons of Pepper&Carrot is printed at the end of the book.
Bolded for emphasis

Earlier episodes were written in French first, but later on, newer episodes are written in English first instead.
 

Etaoin Shrdlu

Civis Illustris
I don't really see the need for a new translation
I have never understood what need there is for any translation of anything into Latin, from a reader's point of view. I can understand why someone might want to translate something modern into Latin, as an exercise, but I can't fathom who would be the audience, given that there can't be many people ignorant of the language of the modern text but fluent in Latin, who would seem to me to be only ones who could logically be interested. Obviously I'm wrong.
 
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