With these hands I summon forth a rotating pillar of fire

Iohannes Aurum

Technicus Auxiliarius
Here goes (note that I am a novice in translating):

Cum h[i-long:3nq8tzdq][/i-long:3nq8tzdq]s manibus pilam igneam rotandum exelico

Please wait for others to reply first
 

scrabulista

Consul
Staff member

Iohannes Aurum

Technicus Auxiliarius
I have modified the translation to incorporate Scrabulista's suggestion: Cum hīs manibus columna ignis rotandum exelico
 

scrabulista

Consul
Staff member
columna is 1st declension. I suppose future passive participle is OK here but check that for agreement too.
Where do you get exelico?
 

Nikolaos

schmikolaos
Staff member
Iohannes Aurum dixit:
I have modified the translation to incorporate Scrabulista's suggestion: Cum hīs manibus columna ignis rotandum exelico
Using this as a model, here's my suggestion -

Cum his manibus columnam ignis volventem arcesso.

I'm sure there's a better word than "arcesso", but I can't find exelico.
 

scrabulista

Consul
Staff member
I had some qualms about the cum too.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9124

I think there are exceptions but the general rule is cum for ablative of accompaniment.
 

Nikolaos

schmikolaos
Staff member
I was unsure as well, but I tend to have difficulty (at this point in my studies) with cum and pro vs stand-alone ablative and dative.

Without cum, this remains with no change:

His manibus columnam ignis volventem arcesso.

His, by the way, is pronounced heess, not hiz.
 

paulmoore

Member
Nikolaos dixit:
His manibus columnam ignis volventem arcesso.
So shall this be the final say for the translated phrase?

P.S. and the term volventum, is that derived from volvere, meaning to twist?
 

Nikolaos

schmikolaos
Staff member
paulmoore dixit:
Nikolaos dixit:
His manibus columnam ignis volventem arcesso.
So shall this be the final say for the translated phrase?[/i]
That or Tacitus's both work - they certainly aren't the only ways of saying it, though.

Anyway, ""Columnam his manibus igneam evoco volventem" means the same thing, with a few syntactical changes and a slightly different verb. Word order is free, so the changed order doesn't matter grammatically, "pillar of fire" became "fiery pillar", and the verb changed from my literal "I summon" to "I call out", which is probably better.

P.S. and the term volventum, is that derived from volvere, meaning to twist?
Yes, it's actually a form of that verb. I think that "to rotate" better expresses its meaning, though.
 

paulmoore

Member
Yes, I do agree. So the literal 'retranslation' back to English would be similar to 'With these hand a fiery column of rotation I call out'. Is that correct?
I understand that alot of the words we use in English are slang terms, and can be harder to find words for in other languages. Maybe because the English language is lazy?? :) In my mind I imagine the bad guy standing alone, in a field some distance away from the castle. A large group of men are emptying the castle garrison, with intentions of engaging him, and they are moving across the field towards him with great haste. The bad guy sees them coming and at first, rips the earth open,(ie. the earth swallowing spell!) and the other who don't fall in leap across the chasm and continue forth. The bady guy casts this pillar of fire spell and the flame begin to build up and surround him, rotating tumultously, and it will appear as if he is standing inside of a hollow tornado of flame.

Judging by that description, I figured that a 'rotating pillar of fire' would have been good enough of a rather vague description since in medieval times I am pretty sure that they did not have a word or knowledge of the word tornado. I suppose 'vortex' would be the closest term to that maybe? I had also figured that the phrase might have also been easier to interpret in the Latin language.
 

scrabulista

Consul
Staff member
volventem is a present participle so it is the literal rendering of your request.

But the way you've described the scene makes me think vorticem ignis would be a better choice than volventem columnam ignis. Vortex is "whirlpool, eddy, vortex, etc." I'm not sure volventem would even be needed then.
 

Tacitus Arctous

Active Member
scrabulista dixit:
volventem is a present participle so it is the literal rendering of your request.

But the way you've described the scene makes me think vorticem ignis would be a better choice than volventem columnam ignis. Vortex is "whirlpool, eddy, vortex, etc." I'm not sure volventem would even be needed then.
What is the pillar then? Would it not be "I summon the whirlpool of fire" then?
 

Nikolaos

schmikolaos
Staff member
scrabulista dixit:
volventem is a present participle so it is the literal rendering of your request.[/qupte]
That's Latinese for "it literally means `rotating'".

But the way you've described the scene makes me think vorticem ignis would be a better choice than volventem columnam ignis. Vortex is "whirlpool, eddy, vortex, etc." I'm not sure volventem would even be needed then.
Tacitus Arctous dixit:
What is the pillar then? Would it not be "I summon the whirlpool of fire" then?
My dictionary also gives "tornado" and "whirlwind" for that.

Turbo, -inis might also work.
 

Cinefactus

Censor
Staff member
paulmoore dixit:
since in medieval times I am pretty sure that they did not have a word or knowledge of the word tornado. I suppose 'vortex'
What gives you that idea? The Roman authors described them.
 

paulmoore

Member
scrabulista dixit:
volventem is a present participle so it is the literal rendering of your request.

But the way you've described the scene makes me think vorticem ignis would be a better choice than volventem columnam ignis. Vortex is "whirlpool, eddy, vortex, etc." I'm not sure volventem would even be needed then.
I do like the sound of the vorticem ignis alot better. Would that end up being similar to "Surround me with/Surrounded by a vortex of fire/flame"? If not, what would be that translation?

Cinefactus dixit:
paulmoore dixit:
since in medieval times I am pretty sure that they did not have a word or knowledge of the word tornado. I suppose 'vortex'
What gives you that idea? The Roman authors described them.
I wasn't sure exactly how old the term tornado was. I have no doubt that the ancient peoples had born witness to their destructive powers, I was just unsure if they had actually created the word 'tornado' and labeled it as such.
 

paulmoore

Member
Another thought popped into my head. What about the word cyclone? Man I am just not sure which one I should use. I really like the sound(In English) of the phrase surrounded/surround me with a vortex of fire/flame. Would that translation differ drastically from my original posting? Sorry if I am being a pian here, I don't want to drive anyone bonkers!
 

Cinefactus

Censor
Staff member
In his description of the tornado, Pliny also uses the word typhon, which could mean cyclone.
 
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